Episode Transcript
[00:00:06] Speaker A: Sunshine, lollipops and rainbows they pretty trick today Somewhere over the rainbows skies are blue and the dreams that we use always will be.
[00:00:37] Speaker B: Hello, my brother.
[00:00:39] Speaker C: Hello, my sister.
[00:00:40] Speaker B: How are you on this beautiful sunny Monday?
[00:00:42] Speaker C: I'm good, good. No complaints, no complaints at all. And very excited about our guest today, which is.
[00:00:52] Speaker B: Wait, before we get to our hold, hold please. Before you get to our guests, I want to tell you about the grammar activity that I attended in Ann Arbor last week.
[00:01:02] Speaker C: All right, go for it.
[00:01:04] Speaker B: Well, every now and then we have minor grammar discussions on here because you know that I care very deeply about it. So our sister Julie sent me a message and said there are these women who have a podcast, I think it's called. That's what they're saying. I don't know if they have their own podcast or if they're just part of an NPR segment, but they are linguists basically, and they just talk about words and language and grammar and punctuation and trends. And Julie said, this sounds right up your alley. Do you want to go? And of course I said yes. And so we walked into this sold out room filled with, I mean, probably my people, my like minded kindred spirits. We brought the age range down by maybe 20 years. It was the most fun, nerdy activity that I could have imagined. They talked about different trends in language and, you know, do we still care that we end sentences with prepositions or that we don't end with them? She talked about the word whom and how it needs to die.
The evolution of language. People ask questions. They were great questions. I wanted to ask her about how she feels about Alanis Morissette ruining the word ironic.
But I didn't get called on, which was a shame because I was waving my hand very diligently. But it was really sweet to know that there are, I don't know, a few hundred people in Ann Arbor who share my deep love and passion for language.
[00:02:37] Speaker C: That is good to know. And as you know, I'm less of a grammar stickler than you are.
[00:02:46] Speaker B: Fair. I think most people are less grammar sticklers than me, not fewer.
[00:02:55] Speaker C: See, exactly like that. Like, I feel like if you're communicating effectively to the person or audience you're talking to, that's all that matters. And if you bend a few of the old rules to do so, that's encouraged, not only just fine, but, well,
[00:03:10] Speaker B: I think if in the written piece, I still feel like we need to be more meticulous than we do in our spoken language.
[00:03:18] Speaker C: But, and I agree, couldn't Disagree more.
[00:03:22] Speaker B: I mean, you're just. You're wrong.
You're wrong.
All right, I think we should move on to the guest and agree to disagree.
[00:03:30] Speaker C: Agree to disagree. Agree to disagree.
Well, you know, one more comment I will say, which is for anyone to defend your side.
For anyone who says you shouldn't care about that so much, I say we got to care about something in life and caring about the little things that for other people might look as not so important sometimes can give us, you know, some really important meaning and joy and focus, dare I say meditative exercise opportunities. So there's something very good about having a system, whatever that system is, whether it's language or something else, and being committed to it and learning with it and keeping it going and following it. There are good things to that. Even if in this specific instance I may not hold your exact views vis a vis Grimoire.
[00:04:30] Speaker B: Grimoire. That's fair. I'm going to keep fighting the good fight. Also, I will just throw this out because this could be a good listener poll.
She did start by asking people how they feel about the Oxford comma. And people were really passionate and adamant about it. So rather than getting into it, maybe we could deep dive into that in another episode. Maybe we just ask our listeners, how do you feel about the Oxford comma? And rather than explaining it and giving my point of view, I think that might be a nice query for people to ponder.
[00:05:03] Speaker C: Sure, happy to get comments on the Oxford comma? Go for it. But in the meantime, we have a very special guest.
Jill McGill is great name. She's in the field of helping seniors move.
And it's such an important field that we haven't talked about yet.
And obviously something that we've dealt with with our mom. Obviously as things decline, physical systems start to decline and you really have to watch it and care for it. And I just would like to share that.
When I was starting to spend some quality time with mom, especially on those visits to la, when she would stay with me for a few weeks, I had to kind of learn on my own.
I guess I could research this. I didn't really do the Google search back then. This is before for Gemini and ChatGPT. But I had to learn naturally, by observation that you have to really pay attention when you're with someone who's physically diminished when they're walking around.
And there was a time when we would only take her cane with with us when we would go out and we would go, hilarious. When we lunch or we'd go out
[00:06:14] Speaker B: to dinner, she Might as well have been doing, like. Sorry. She might as well have been doing a tap dance number with that.
[00:06:20] Speaker C: It was such a hassle just to bring the full walker. And I had, you know, I had that small little car, that wonderful little car. Trudy, I miss you. Love you.
[00:06:28] Speaker B: Good car.
[00:06:29] Speaker C: And. But to. To fit. That was a pain in the ass. And so if it was just going to dinner, I could, you know, escort her in with just the cane. But I had to really learn that. I had to hold her tight, kind of to the side of my body and watch every step. And it was. You can't, like, take her eyes off them. And so I learned that, and I realized that this is. And then I. Sometimes when we got home and we have caregivers and other people coming in and out, and they would be hand. The caregivers obviously are professional. They know what to do. But other people that are with her and maybe are kind of in charge, so to speak, for a few minutes at a time, they have to be briefed on, like, this is. This is what you do. And, like, don't pull the.
The walker at your pace because it might be too fast for them and it could cause them to fall. Like, there's little things.
So many things that I wish I would have. I should have gone through a training class. And so today we're gonna. Not necessarily go through a specific training class on everything, but we're gonna get a lot of great info from Jill.
And because it's. It's interesting. You know, mom was always a very active swimmer and always in pretty good physical condition, in generally very good health.
And so the nurse was there today, and we actually weighed her, and she's 114 pounds.
[00:07:47] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:07:47] Speaker C: How much do you think she weighed, like, before diminishment started to begin?
[00:07:53] Speaker B: Oh, well, she's. I mean, it's funny you should say that because she used to keep these bizarre journals that would just be, like, random sticky notes that I would find long after she had started to decline. When I'd started to go through and clean up, you know, the mess that was her house, I would find these little sticky notes all over the place. And often they would just say, like, 142.61, 28.9. Just a sticky note all over. I knew exactly what it was.
Yeah, she was a little heavier in her day, even though she exercised and she ate pretty well. You might recall, Andrew, that mom had a little bit of a binge eating problem. Like, we would open up the pantry and you'd find Chocolate chips all over the place because not only did she have a binge eating problem, but she wasn't tidy. So she would leave remnants of all the little things that she was hoarding without us seeing it. But, I mean, you have to remember that she would make a batch of cookies and we'd each have a couple and then they'd be gone the next day. Who do you think eating those?
[00:08:54] Speaker C: Yeah, I don't remember.
[00:08:55] Speaker B: Yeah, well, you grew up in a different household in your mind than. Than I did.
[00:08:59] Speaker C: But no, I'm not saying it didn't happen. I just. I don't recall. Maybe that's why she became such a great baker, because she loved sweets.
[00:09:06] Speaker B: She did. She loved sweets. It was never main course issues or things like that. She loved sweets and she passed that love of sweets to me. I. I would. I would eat only sweets for the rest of my life.
[00:09:16] Speaker C: I love it too. I love it too.
[00:09:17] Speaker B: And also it was great to see how much she loved making them. What was sad was how she really shamed about the eating piece. And I wish that that hadn't been the case for her, but she'd be so delighted to know that she got on the scale today and she was 114 pounds. But the sad piece is that there's no ability for her to celebrate that because she has no context of that anymore.
[00:09:40] Speaker C: It's kind of ironic, actually.
All right, good to know any who.
I think it's time to move on to our wonderful guest. So let's get to it.
And in the meantime, here's mom to play us a ditty.
[00:10:00] Speaker A: Another words tell me true.
[00:10:40] Speaker C: Here we are with. With Jill rolling start because there were some technical difficulties and for some reason Jill was overlapping with a recording for a previous episode that we were doing. She was able to listen in as an audience. There's an audience feature which we didn't anything about. And Jill, correct me if I'm wrong, you just said you're very interested to hear about the Odyssey now and all these other things that we're talking about.
[00:11:00] Speaker D: Yeah, always lots of different topics.
[00:11:02] Speaker B: I just don't know anybody who said, oh, yeah, I walked out. I mean, I thought it was just so compelling and I couldn't even imagine being able to physically get my body up and leave. So, Andrew E. You are. You are an original Jill. Your name is Jill McGill.
[00:11:19] Speaker D: That's right. Sometimes easier to remember.
[00:11:22] Speaker B: It is very easy to remember. But I do have to ask you, having nothing to do with the rest of our conversation, but did you marry into that name or did your parents. Okay, no.
[00:11:32] Speaker D: And my parents didn't do that to me. I did it to myself.
[00:11:35] Speaker B: Well, I bring it up because my lifelong bestie is Gina Sofia Catalina, and she was given that name at birth. So. But it brings to mind another story of when I was young. I briefly dated, but then maintained a lifelong friendship to this day with a guy named Philip Barron, who I just adore. And my mother adored him even more than I did at the time and said, I think you should marry Philip Barron. And I said, but then my name will be Karen Barron. And she said, well, then you could use your middle name, Elizabeth. I mean, Elizabeth Barron is a really beautiful name, which it is. But I said, well, I don't think anybody's gonna know that I'm Karen Edelson if I go. Suddenly become at, you know, in my 20s, Elizabeth Barron. And she seemed completely unfazed by that because she really liked him so much that I think she thought, well, just. Who cares?
[00:12:30] Speaker D: That's a compliment. Yeah.
[00:12:33] Speaker B: When you met Mr. McGill, was there a thought like, this is going to be tricky?
[00:12:37] Speaker D: Well, yeah, perhaps, like, huh, well, but I pushed through and we. We did it.
[00:12:43] Speaker C: I think it's great. It's very easy to remember. It flows and not bad about it at all.
[00:12:51] Speaker B: I love it. It's a great name. Jill, you are a physical therapist. So before we get into what you currently do, can you just tell us a little bit about what led you to this field?
[00:13:01] Speaker D: Well, I always enjoyed working with people, and I was always interested in science and, you know, thought about different health careers. I also like to be very active, so it just kind of fell into place. And honestly, I probably got into it before I really fully understood what physical therapy was all about, but it ended up being a great fit.
[00:13:21] Speaker A: Beautiful.
[00:13:21] Speaker B: How long have you been a physical therapist?
[00:13:24] Speaker D: For over 30 years now.
[00:13:25] Speaker A: Oh, my.
[00:13:27] Speaker B: That's impressive. So you currently work for the Kurt Gibson Center, Correct. Detroiters will recognize that name. People outside of Detroit. Maybe, maybe not. Can you give us a little background and talk about what the Gibson center does?
[00:13:42] Speaker D: Sure. It is a community center that provides exercise support and education to people with Parkinson's disease. And it's a nonprofit. It's. All services are free, and we provide evidence based exercise classes for all these individuals with Parkinson's.
[00:14:00] Speaker B: Amazing.
[00:14:00] Speaker C: And for those who don't know who Curve Gibson is, he was one of the greatest Tiger, Detroit Tiger, professional baseball players in recent memory. Also was very prolific for the Dodgers. And he has Parkinson's. And he's been Very public about his journey with Parkinson's. And that's why this whole link to the Parkinson's center is. Is am I presenting it basically correct?
[00:14:23] Speaker D: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. He wanted to look for a way that could help others that were also dealing with Parkinson's disease and as an athlete and the exercise component, how much exercise is beneficial for people with Parkinson's. So it was just a really natural fit.
[00:14:38] Speaker B: So at the Gibson center, anybody who has Parkinson's can come and be part of that program?
[00:14:45] Speaker D: Yes, anybody with Parkinson's disease and then some closely related Parkinson's, similar diseases can do that also. They get a physician release form from their doctor, and then we go through an assessment process to determine what class level they would be in. So it's the most appropriate, not too challenging, but not too easy. And then we have 6 month and 12 month reassessments to make sure that they're still in the right class level.
[00:15:11] Speaker C: And can you just maybe take a quick step back, Jill, and pt Physical therapy is such a big thing. Can you just hone in on specifically what that means to you and how you work within that realm?
[00:15:26] Speaker D: Sure. So when I was at my other job for 30 years, I worked for Beaumont Hospital, then Corwell Health, primarily in the outpatient setting, working with individuals that had neurological conditions or injuries. And in the neurology focus, we really work on people recovering or maintaining or improving their overall mobility and safety. So we dealt a lot with balance, strength, flexibility, and then also providing the patient in that case and their care partners ways to carry that over at home. And we might look at what exercises they could do at home, maybe some assisted devices and then also other services out in the community that would support their goals.
[00:16:07] Speaker C: And isn't it always a challenge like physical therapy? And I've done it in the past when I have had injuries here and there. It's always like in my mind, framed as rehab, like there was an injury and now there's some specific exercises that you have to do for a limited amount of time until you recover from that injury, then you're done. But isn't there, isn't it more than that? Or shouldn't it be like, is there some type of PT blending into regular exercise that we should be doing to help prevent injury long term?
[00:16:36] Speaker D: Yeah, exactly. Because a lot of times, like you said, there could be, you know, an injury, maybe you injured your back or your ankle or something like that, and then you do the rehab and you recover and you kind of move on. But a lot of times I often Compare it to going to the dentist. You go to the dentist, you get your teeth clean, they maybe they fix a cavity, that sort of thing. But then you go home and you floss and you brush. So that's what it should be as well. You go to the physical therapist. They help you identify any issues you might have, hone in on those specific issues. But then you need to continue on with this lifelong relationship with exercise and activity. So, you know, you see your therapist, but then you have to go home and floss and floss and brush with your exercise at home.
[00:17:20] Speaker C: And so for seniors with. Particularly with dementia, you know, a lot of the ability to floss and brush comes down to remembering that you have to floss and brush. Not only that it's time to do it, but, like, what the technique is and how to do it. And obviously, one of the big challenges for seniors with dementia is, you know, you can teach them what to do, but they might have a challenge remembering what that is and how to do it. And so how do you. Is there. How do you. How do you deal with that?
[00:17:48] Speaker D: Sure. So if you go to the physical therapist or even as care partners or family, trying to support your loved one to be more active, two things come to mind. Initiating exercise. So they might need a prompt to start their exercise routine or to go out for a walk. And then they might require some supervision or some cues to make sure that they execute it safely and the way that it needs to be done to be successful.
So just like all those other everyday activities, like eating, brushing their teeth, you know, that sort of thing, depending on the individual, they might need that cue.
[00:18:23] Speaker B: So it involves a lot of reinforcement, I assume, from caregivers.
[00:18:26] Speaker D: Absolutely.
[00:18:27] Speaker B: You know, it's an interesting point because I notice I really try to get my mom up and moving, and it's becoming obviously more and more challenging as time goes by. And it's interesting that we've even had a lot of conversations about just getting her in and out of the car that she's not remembering but first.
[00:18:43] Speaker A: Right.
[00:18:43] Speaker B: Literally, that if she puts her tushy down first, everything else follows a little bit easier. And I do feel like every time I'm getting her in and out of the car, I'm sort of teaching her again, because obviously she can't remember from the last round or even the idea of getting her up from her chair. Now we have these kind of funny cues that she does seem to remember, but she doesn't always do that. So, for instance, if she's sitting in her chair and I'll say, okay, mom, we're gonna go for a walk. And she has a walker, but she does need to put her arms down phys. To push herself up before she's able to grab the walker. And I've noticed that I will always say, okay, we're going to count to three.
And I will say, one, two. And she'll say, and three. And sometimes that three will cue her, but sometimes she just says, and three. And then she's still just sitting in the chair.
So I would assume that there's got to be some benefit to training the caregivers to absolutely help. I mean, can you offer. How do you do that?
[00:19:43] Speaker D: So some of it you'll kind of sort out yourself, kind of like you did. That was a great example of using counting, you know, giving cues and sequencing.
So that's where sometimes one on one with a therapist could be beneficial. They could break it down and kind of help you come up with what works with that particular individual. So sometimes, for instance, even with our Parkinson's members or anybody that might have a memory issue or seems somewhat stuck, you know, setting them up for success. So scooting to the edge of your seat, maybe counting like you suggested, or rocking forward and backward can help to cue that automatic response to stand up. So.
[00:20:22] Speaker B: Oh, that's a great point. I would have never thought about the rocking. It feels a little less jarring than just kind of getting her to scooch up.
[00:20:28] Speaker D: Yeah. And you can, if there's armrests available, you can prompt them to push up from the armrest. There's a couple different things to help them kind of just get that forward weight shift.
[00:20:37] Speaker B: So if you're doing PT with a senior who has dementia, are you also working with the caregiver?
[00:20:42] Speaker D: Absolutely. If you want the optimal outcome, we always try to include the care partners because that's what's going to. You only spend one to two hours, maybe a week with the therapist, but you spend the other rest of your time at home. And that's really what's going to make the big difference. And like you said, it's kind of over learning or doing the task over and over and over again. That will help to make it automatic
[00:21:07] Speaker C: and just to double click on that chair situation for a second. Because this is interesting with mom because she spends, you know, she does a lot of moving around and we get her out of the house and especially our wonderful cousin Gary comes and takes her to the gym still a couple times a week where she can still get on the bike and Pedal around for a little bit and getting up. First of all, question tactically, like I corrected Gary the other day, bless his heart, but he like sometimes when he gets her up, he pulls on her arms to like pull her up, which seems like the wrong thing to do. Like I said, you know, the best thing to do is let. She can do it on her own for a little bit and scooch up to the front and that she's having a tough time standing up and she can still most of the time stand up on her own if she's grabbing the proper handles of the chair and using those as a brace to push up. But like if she needs help, just put your arm kind of underneath her armpit and just help her up that little way, that way. And that usually does the trick. It's a little bit less prone to injury. Am I approaching that correctly?
[00:22:06] Speaker D: I agree. Yes. You probably want to avoid pulling on somebody because you don't want to make them worried about falling for one because then they tend to maybe resist you. Also, you might don't want to injure anybody's shoulder or anything like that or get in a little tug of war. But yes, like you said, being slightly behind them in either an, like you said, a hand under our armpit or even just a little cue at their shoulder blades, that can work. I also would recommend that you keep the cues very simple one step commands so it doesn't become overwhelming and breaking it down into pieces. Scoot forward, put your feet flat on the floor, rock forward, let's count. And then, you know, try to execute the movement. And that could be broken down for, you know, getting in and out of bed, getting in and out of your car, you know, lots of tasks.
[00:22:54] Speaker C: That's. Yeah, that's one thing I noticed. I feel like just getting to know how to work with the senior and work with mom, just walking around and assisting her moving around. Because also there were some times when some others would be with her, they would like pull her walker while she was walking, thinking that she needed help to propel forward.
But also they're kind of like start to set a pace that is too fast for her, which could lead to a fall. So I think you also have to be very careful about that. Which leads me to this question about. Cause I always feel like the more she can, the longer she can still do something on her own, the better. So I try to like let her do it on her own. And some people's instinct is like, well, I can see she's struggling, so I'm getting in there now to help. Like, how do you manage the line between it's good for her to try to do it on her own, or she's getting tired now it's time to get in there?
[00:23:45] Speaker D: Well, safety, I think, is always the kind of threshold that you have to look at. If someone is getting tired, that is going to increase their risk of fall. But we have to be careful not to. We want to provide everybody an opportunity to be physically active. So, you know, if someone, if it's time to get up to go to get a meal, I'd rather they get up and go and eat at the table than bring their meal to them all the time. And that, you know, even those little bits of walking across that, you know, from the living room to the dining room or the kitchen, those little bursts of activity are going to be better than none of them.
[00:24:18] Speaker B: Good point. What about. I mean, it does happen, seniors, especially those with dementia, they fall.
What kind of tips can you offer? If I'm with my mom or a caregiver's with my mom and she falls?
[00:24:33] Speaker D: Well, there's a couple things. One, if someone is experiencing falls or you notice that they tend to be doing something I kind of refer to as like furniture surfing. You know, they're tending to walk around the house and they're tending to touch the wall, touch the couch, touch the table. That's kind of a red flag that they're not as confident with their walking. And it might be something that needs further investigation. So you definitely want to share it with your doctor or your provider so that they can screen and make sure it's not anything related to medication or a new health condition that maybe a person with dementia may not be able to, you know, readily share with everybody else. So maybe it needs to be evaluated. So that's the first thing. And then when it comes to fall prevention, we want to take a look at whether or not an assisted device might be helpful. But we don't want that assistive device to be a barrier. So if you find that, you know, you want to try a cane, but they tend to carry it more often, or they get, you know, stressed out or anxious about carrying the cane, then that's not helpful. But perhaps something that's a little bit more automatic, like pushing a wheeled walker, that might be a better choice.
And sometimes you can frame it as, can you push this cart for me? You don't have to call it a walker.
And we don't want to. If, if they're uncomfortable with it or it's unfamiliar. You might need to introduce it gradually.
[00:25:53] Speaker B: That's a good point. I remember for my mom, she just refused to use that walker. And now I can't even imagine she couldn't function without the walker. But it took, I want to say it took years for her to finally be comfortable with it.
When we were chatting with you pre interview, you did bring up a point that I thought was really, I hadn't thought of this, that my immediate reaction is, if my mom is to fall, I feel like I should get her up.
[00:26:17] Speaker D: Sure. When someone falls, there's a lot of adrenaline, a lot of anxiety, and everybody kind of like jumps to and is ready to haul the person into an upright position. But really what we probably should do is kind of assess the situation. You want to check for injury, or, you know, if you walk in and your loved one is on the ground, try to figure out have they been there a long time. So if there is an injury or you think they've been down for an extended period of time, you'd want to call and have, you know, emergency services come and check things out. But if you. You kind of saw what happened or you see that there's not an injury, they didn't bump their head, they didn't, you know, sprain their wrist or, you know, hopefully didn't break a hip or something very, very serious. You. You start to make a plan. And what you want to do is see is if. Is there a piece of furniture that they could scoot next to, or could you bring them a chair? And then you may sequence the activity. We want to try to get up onto your hands and knees. You want to get put. Place your hands on that sturdy piece of furniture. And then you want to gradually make your way up into standing and then sitting. So that's something that, you know, if falling is a concern, that's again, something to discuss with the doctor. And perhaps the physical therapy might be helpful. And again, this would be more to provide education to the care partners and family members so that they could learn how to safely do this.
[00:27:38] Speaker B: Yeah, I remember with my dad that he had started to have falls towards the end when things were really starting to decline. And one time my mom called me because my dad had had a fall, and he absolutely was adamant that he did not want. EMS called and I lived close, and I came over, and my dad was a thin, you know, not a big guy, and I'm pretty strong, but there was no way that I could have gotten him up. Then I had that horrible guilt of. Now Ems is gonna have to come. And I do remember trying to direct him to, you know, are you able to get to hands and knees or are you able to sit? It was challenging because, you know, his cognitive skills were declining pretty rapidly at that point. But I definitely feel like, as caregivers, we're probably not recognizing that we need a level of training to help us. One, just so that we don't overreact, and two, we can't injure ourselves. That whole point of the caregiver is the one who ends up needing care. There's a lot to it. There's a lot of nu to what you should be doing and how to get a person up. And I think that kind of training is really meaningful because I was often at a loss about what to do.
[00:28:45] Speaker D: Yeah, as you said, the person, if they have dementia or more advanced dementia, they may not be getting what they feel is a lot out of physical therapy, but really it's to give the caregivers the tools to help them to be able to, you know, maintain the quality of life of that person, whether it's through mobility and safety and fall prevention.
[00:29:07] Speaker C: And what are some, like, I tips about helping just walking around with this unit? We've touched on it a little bit, but I just found that gradually, as I started to spend more time alone with my mom, as she started to decline, I just kind of figured it out, you know, that I feel like the first big lesson is just pay attention, you know, don't take your eyes off them, and if they're moving okay, they're fine. But be close by so that you can catch them if they happen to fall.
I mean, there's obviously a balance. You know, our mom's now pretty good on the walker, so you don't have to be right next to her all the time. But be patient. Don't rush things. Like, what are some tips for people who find themselves alone with their senior? And they need to know just kind of the basic lessons of how to walk with them.
[00:29:51] Speaker D: Sure. So usually what we do is we try to let the individual, as you said, kind of walk on their own. So you can stand just a little bit offset to the side so that you could be there in case they need, you know, some cues, Whether it's like, oh, stop, or we're going to turn here, you know, for navigation. Or it could be a matter of if the walker's starting to get too far ahead of them. Sometimes people have a hard time keeping their body close to the walker, and they really start to lean forward so we might need to give them cues for that. Some people may choose to use something we call in physical therapy, a gait belt. You guys might have seen those sort of things. If someone's really unsteady or if they do need to tend to, need, like, a physical boost, that sort of thing, sometimes that belt can be helpful instead of having to be, you know, give that support under the arm that we talked about. Because we don't want anybody to get in the caregiver or the individual to get an injury with their shoulder or anything like that. So those types of things, you know, cuing them to adjust their speed, to take long steps, you know, and again, you don't want to give them too much cueing where they're overwhelmed. But for safety, those are some good places to start.
[00:30:58] Speaker C: And one thing we notice is that our mom lately, thankfully, she's doing. She's pretty in pretty good physical shape. She's still walking around a lot. And she loves to do her laps around the house. And sometimes she continuously does the laps around the house to the point that, I mean, this is more of a recent thing, but, like, I noticed that she also then comes to. She's got her favorite chair in the front room, and she, like, does a pass at the chair, and even, like, sets herself up by backing up. And she's about to go down, maybe forgets that she's supposed to lean down and grab the handle behind her. And maybe she doesn't feel comfortable doing that. So she gets back up and she starts walking around again. And I feel like if I didn't direct her to sit down and help her do that or just oversee it, that she might be walking around for hours. Is that a common thing?
[00:31:45] Speaker D: It's not unusual. Just like sometimes people won't initiate something without a prompt. They might kind of get stuck in kind of a loop where they need prompting to stop.
And again, you could try to come up with a system that works for that individual. And maybe that's counting how many times you're gonna go around and do your, you know, walking loop in the house and say, oh, we're gonna do it five times.
Or, you know, or when this song.
[00:32:08] Speaker C: I've done that, I've done the five lap loop thing. I've done that.
[00:32:11] Speaker D: Or when the music is over, you know, maybe you're gonna do it to. To the music. You could say, when this song is over, we're gonna sit down.
[00:32:17] Speaker B: It's like musical chairs. That's a great idea. She loves music. That would be a Good cue for that.
[00:32:22] Speaker C: Well, and the thing is, what I've been doing is that even though music is often.
Because the caregiver's there first thing in the morning, and then I usually come down toward the end of their shift, and normally they're putting music on. And what I normally do is, like, if she's walking around the house, I'm like, mom, come. Even if music's already playing, I'm like, mom, come into your. Why don't you come and sit down in your chair? I'll play you some music? She's like, oh, that's wonderful. Thank you. And she'll, like, happily go in there and sit down. I'll just change the music to something else.
[00:32:49] Speaker D: Right.
[00:32:50] Speaker C: She's not too discerning. It's fine.
[00:32:52] Speaker D: And some people might be really resistant to exercise. That's something that we hear.
So, you know, tapping into that person's interests, you know, whether that's music, if it's playing cards, if it's, you know, checking out their, you know, garden in the yard, or, you know, going out into the garage and checking, you know, on things or, you know, going to the library, anything, you know, tap into their interest, something that's meaningful, something that'll give them some joy. Not any. You don't want to stress that person out and say, it's time to exercise. And they're like, I don't want to do that right now. So sometimes you. Yeah, so sometimes you have to kind of find your segue. But, you know, tapping into what they love to do.
[00:33:32] Speaker B: It's amazing. I so funny, because I do notice that, that when I take her on walks, it takes a really long time to get to the corner. But then when she's there, I think, okay, I'm kind of learning that we're better off coming back toward the house again. Even if she wants to walk further, we can do it in the other direction, because I've had situations where she's just ready to.
And then she is all the way around, you know, halfway around the block, and she's tired, and now we're stuck halfway around the block. So I've gotten much better at doing short stints and not calling it exercise, because. Absolutely, you know, the joy of walking around the block isn't, oh, we're. You're working out. It's, we're doing something that you really like to do, and she does really like to do it. But I definitely had to learn that taking her too far only puts everybody in a really bad situation, because now we're just too far away.
Is there any kind of special technology or movement aids that people should know about?
[00:34:26] Speaker D: So there's a variety of, you know, different smartwatches or, you know, different items that you can wear if you. Depending on what your goal is. If you want to track someone's activity level, it can, you know, count your number of steps per day. If you want to see how active someone is on average, like through the week, there's also ones that can track their sleep. Some people in this population may wander. Some of them are a little more advanced and they have fall detection or gps. If someone tends to walk away. The biggest thing I would say is even your regular Apple phone or an Apple Watch has the health app on it and it can track if, if the person tends to even have the phone with them. I find sometimes our seniors don't like to carry the phone with them all the time and it's not always charged up. But if you can get them so that they're wearing a device, it can count their steps. And rather than tracking, you know, trying to get the goal of a 10,000 steps a day, maybe just kind of take a look and see what the weekly trend was and that you want to maintain that or maybe increase it by a small amount, 10%, that sort of thing just again so that you can get the benefits of exercise. Because that's. There's so many benefits to exercise. It helps to increase alertness, can decrease stress and anxiety. It helps your overall health. You just want to stay as active as possible. And if you have a person that maybe isn't very active or in Michigan we've got these cold weather or it's raining, that sort of thing. Even walking in your home doing sustained standing at the kitchen counter, being active, you can log into YouTube, there's a variety of chair exercises. If they, if you can get them to participate in that, you can go the dancing route. You just. There's. You gotta sometimes be a little bit creative but trying to loop into all the benefits of exercise.
[00:36:17] Speaker C: Yeah, we do the Apple Watch.
She doesn't. Hasn't used the cell phone for a long time, but we have the Anker cell phone so that the watch can work and there's fall detection in there. And we have this bolt on other software that we use because with Apple at least how it has been is that when someone falls they don't immediately call 911 until there's absolutely zero motion for like a minute or two. And because they think that if you're. Even if your Arm is moving around. You can tap on that thing and say, I'm fine. Or tap to call for emergency services. And they don't want, like, ambulances going everywhere all the time, which is understandable. But what we would like is at least an alert to the family to say, hey, she fell, so you might want to check it out and see what's going on there. And so there is some. I don't know if you have a good solution for those type of things, if there's a new thing out there, but that seems to be how you have to bolt it on. Of course, we have caregivers around her all the time now, so thankfully, knock on wood somewhere, we haven't experienced a big fall in recent times, but we have that just in case.
[00:37:18] Speaker D: Yeah. And especially if someone does live on their own, it's good to have that safety net.
[00:37:23] Speaker B: Yeah. We interviewed a company called Nomo SmartCare a few months ago who have some interesting devices for people to wear or even just to monitor them throughout the house, even if they're not wearing them, which we thought was pretty helpful. It was interesting when we first talked about talking to a physical therapist, I thought, how does mom, with her advanced stage Alzheimer's benefit from this? But your points are really great. That one, it's not just for the person. It's for the caregivers who surround them or family members, but also the idea that there's lots of ways to factor in movement, which feels like it's always beneficial. So thank you. These are amazing tips. We really appreciate your time with us today.
I think there are important lessons here for our listeners that it isn't just about the person. It's about the people who surround them as well.
[00:38:15] Speaker D: It's the whole team, for sure.
[00:38:17] Speaker C: Thank you, Jill. This was really helpful, and I love it. Thank you.
[00:38:19] Speaker B: Jill McGill.
[00:38:20] Speaker C: Best name maiden, by the way. Jill, what's your maiden name? We didn't cover that.
[00:38:24] Speaker D: Yeah, Hessling.
[00:38:25] Speaker C: Hessling.
[00:38:26] Speaker D: Okay.
[00:38:27] Speaker B: We already had a good name, but this is. I mean, it's even better.
[00:38:30] Speaker D: Someone told me it was melodic, so I'll go with that.
[00:38:33] Speaker A: It is.
[00:38:33] Speaker C: Absolutely. I can see that. I can see that. All right, well, thanks so much. Have a great rest of your day. And as everyone in the podcast knows who listens normally, in a second, mom will play us out for the transition.
[00:38:45] Speaker D: Thank you.
[00:38:49] Speaker A: You break up in me you and you alone.
Above all the empty char about you and graceful see every for you just one look at you bring out the gypsy in me you and you
[00:39:35] Speaker B: and we are back Great conversation with Jill McGill, who really does something for a living that is so helpful and meaningful. Being part of the Gibson foundation, which is a great resource for families and the people themselves who are struggling.
The piece that I find interesting is that when I think of a concept of PT for someone who is in diminished capacity, I couldn't imagine that there would be any real value for that person because their ability to focus on what they're learning in PT is gone.
And yet I was wrong.
And not only because PT can be valuable for the person, that person, him or herself, but also the people who surround that person. That kind of level we talked about the beginning, that level of training and understanding, even cues that we should be giving is really helpful information.
[00:40:34] Speaker C: Yeah. And I.
Even without the being able to remember what you're taught about exercises you should do, I think just the act of going through physical therapy and visiting that center and, or visiting with a therapist and having them guide you through the physical movements is in itself important because it will help with just like any workout, it'll help with your dexterity and your strength and who knows, maybe even though you won't actually remember in the traditional sense of remembering something, there will be some synapse or instinct that will kick in if you do have a fall where your body will naturally move in the right way and you don't know why, nobody will know why, but it'll happen. And even if not, it's important work to even just like get the muscles moving. I mean mom, thank God, gets out and does a lot of moving and wandering and is able to still do that. So she, she gets her movement. But I remember for a while she was, she had like that series where she was seeing a, a physical therapist or a trainer or something for a little while. And I thought that was such a great thing. I almost wanted to like keep that going. But yeah, that was, it was useful for her and not because she was learning how to lift her leg in the right way. She was just getting a nice stretch and workout and guide by. Guided by somebody professional.
[00:42:02] Speaker B: Yeah, I agree. I wonder. You know, I didn't. I don't think this is Jill's area of expertise, so I didn't ask this, but I would be curious to know if insurance covers PT for someone with dementia. And I wonder. And it may depend on the diagnosis. It may depend, obviously depend on the policy, but. Cause I do remember that we had to go through a lot of authorizations to get her PT covered before her full on dementia diagnosis. And then I feel like maybe there was some OT involved once she had the diagnosis. But I do feel like you're right that mind body connection is such a meaningful piece for anybody in any circumstance. But I do wonder if it is especially helpful for someone whose mind is so diminished, but whose body. I mean, we constantly talk about that Mom's in really good physical health. It's her, not mental health, but you know what I'm saying. Her cognitive ability is in complete decline, but her physical health is still really great. Even if she needs reminders as to, you know, how to get up from a chair.
[00:43:11] Speaker C: Yeah. And I would also like to note that there's obviously some different challenges with Parkinson's versus dementia, and the work that the Kirk Gibson center is doing is just incredible. And I would just like to give a shout out to Gibby because he really is one of the great athletes in the Detroit Metro area that I can remember, obviously, in my life, because the Tigers won the world series in 1984, like, at the peak of my development as a hometown sports fan. And I will always remember his home run in game six against Goose Gossage into the upper right deck to put us up 74 and clinch the clinching game that gave us the World Series and inning later.
And I remember the moment when that happened. Of course, this is back 84. Everybody's just watching on their television set. And we were watching at home because
[00:44:11] Speaker B: the game wasn't at home, that final game.
[00:44:13] Speaker C: It was at home. It was. It was in Tiger Stadium. But I didn't go to the game. I was watching on tv. And when we finally won and the final out was recorded, everybody on the block ran out to their cars, turned on their cars and started honking their horns. There was this natural need to go out and celebrate. And we're like in the suburbs of Detroit, you know.
[00:44:37] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:44:37] Speaker C: Houses and.
[00:44:38] Speaker B: No, listen, I remember it. At the University of Michigan, everybody. You could hear collective screams.
[00:44:44] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. And.
And that was just such a great memory. Something I can't imagine that would ever happen for any reason anymore. There was a little. Just a little special time that that happened.
[00:44:56] Speaker B: Doesn't happen because we can't seem to make it into the final.
We don't even. What am I talking about?
[00:45:02] Speaker A: The best.
[00:45:03] Speaker B: Of course, that's one of the main
[00:45:04] Speaker C: reasons is we're far away from another World Series title yet.
And I will also say, regarding Gibby, and I hope this isn't too controversial of a take, because, of course, all the LA teams, because of our family, were my. Are my Second teams, the Dodgers, of course, one of them. And everybody knows him for his, as you know, Karen, his 1988 walk off Homer in game one of the World Series after, you know, coming on the pinch hit after being injured.
And that's like the thing that people remember him for. But the Goose Gossage home run was more important, and not just because I'm a Detroit Tiger fan. First, it clinched the world championship. His Dodger home run, Game one. It was fantastic. Very dramatic, but it was game one. That series was just getting going. I know you agree with that take.
[00:45:55] Speaker B: I do. I was just thinking the same thing.
[00:45:57] Speaker C: Yeah, there you go.
All right, well, that's. That does it for this episode. Karen, you're just better at the salutations. Why don't you take it?
[00:46:07] Speaker B: Okay.
We would love to hear from you. As you know, we've been hearing from people who have been a part of our lives that we haven't heard from in a long time, and now they're reaching out, sending us emails. It is just so gratifying to open up an email and see not just from people we know, although that's so delightful, but just from people we don't know who are listening to the pod, who say, hey, thank you, or this helped me with my mom, or I really appreciate listening, or I know someone who could really benefit from this. Or, you know, I see people throughout my daily life who will say, my mother just got a diagnosis of dementia. And I am listening to your podcast and I find it incredibly helpful. This is our whole purpose for doing this. It makes us so happy to know that we're helping other people so that they don't have to go through this alone and struggle for resources. We like being the source. And listen, nobody wants to have to know what we know, but because we do, we're happy to share it. And so we hope that you will share our podcast. You can reach out to us through iFitsNot1.
You can follow us on Facebook or Instagram at. If it's not one thing, it's Joanna. And we are looking forward to chatting with you next time.
[00:47:29] Speaker C: And here's mom to play us out.
[00:47:54] Speaker A: And when that fight starts to be a better bright gotta have it all tonight Somewhere over the rainbow skies are blue and the dreams that you knew always would come back to you.
