[00:00:05] Speaker A: On the street where you're living today.
And that's where you're gonna be doing it tomorrow in the universe for the next day on the street where you live.
[00:00:29] Speaker B: Yeah, I just bum rushed you with the record button. Just started.
While we were trying to think about what to talk about, I just went ahead and pressed record, because you know what? Sometimes I just do that and you gotta riff on your feet. Little improv.
[00:00:43] Speaker C: All right, well, we're doing it.
[00:00:45] Speaker B: We're doing it. Sorry, what were you about to say?
[00:00:47] Speaker D: I was about to say that we are about to listen to our interview
[00:00:53] Speaker C: with Rabbi Josh Bennett of Temple Israel
[00:00:56] Speaker D: in West Bloomfield, Michigan. And I was talking about how I wonder if mom and dad are maybe.
[00:01:04] Speaker C: Or Mom.
[00:01:05] Speaker D: I mean, Dad's gone, but I wonder if mom is one of the longest standing congregants of Temple Israel. I mean, they join.
Gosh, I'm.
[00:01:16] Speaker B: She has to be, because, I mean, they joined in their 20s, I assume, and.
[00:01:20] Speaker D: No, no, no, no, no. I think that I think the original joining, because both mom and dad grew up in more Conservative synagogues in Detroit, they joined Temple Israel. I think there's nobody to verify this, but my guess is they joined when Uncle Richard, Mom's brother, married Aunt Nancy and her family were members of Temple Israel. And the wedding. Their wedding took place at Temple Israel. Julie and I were truly adorable flower girls in that wedding.
[00:01:48] Speaker C: That would have been
[00:01:51] Speaker D: late 1960s, early 1970s. Maybe that wedding was.
Oh, gosh, I mean, it could have been 1969.
[00:02:01] Speaker B: Suffice to say, yeah, Mom's probably one of the older living members, along with Sheila, who I take to bridge and who is her contemporary in the Mama San culture at Huntington Woods.
And, yeah, I think. And I look, you know, I look forward to hearing Rabbi Josh talk about. Our topic today is where is spirituality within the caregiving realm? And can we be leaning on spirituality and faith a little bit more? And how can we do that? And how can it help cope with some of these very heavy things that we have to deal with when talking about dementia and Alzheimer's and all the stuff that goes on there. And I look forward to hearing what he has to say. And I will say to go beyond what you're talking about, like, we do have a long history with Temple Israel, even though later in life we haven't really been active members. Every once in a while, I'll take Mom to a high holy day service, but not much visitation of that temple is happening outside of it, although I realize that I'm still very connected to the community and the friends I made there. Growing up, I was about as active as you could possibly be growing up there, getting bar mitzvahed, going on their Israel trip, getting confirmed, graduating from high school, taking Hebrew school.
So, yeah, I was into it. Definitely more for the social, honestly, than the religion, though. I'm a believer in the ten Commandments. I think they're pretty solid, but I'd
[00:03:34] Speaker D: like to think most people could. I'm gonna throw this in there, not to trump you, but, I mean, I think it deserves to be said because it is a really important piece of our connection to Temple Israel. When I was in. I think it's fifth grade, he says, fourth grade, I had named Jeffrey Seller. He became to this day one of the foremost Broadway producers of our time. But at that time, he was just my pal from Temple Israel, and he convinced me to try out for the Purim play.
[00:04:01] Speaker C: And I thought, are you kidding?
[00:04:03] Speaker D: And I mean, I think it goes.
[00:04:06] Speaker B: Is that the Haman one?
[00:04:08] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:04:09] Speaker B: Well, so Heyman's the bad guy in that one.
[00:04:10] Speaker D: Heman's the bad guy. But who's the good guy?
[00:04:12] Speaker C: Who's the good girl?
[00:04:14] Speaker B: King Ahash Veras. Is that. Did I get it right?
[00:04:17] Speaker D: Yes, you did.
[00:04:18] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:04:19] Speaker D: Who's the good girl?
Who's wife? Yeah.
[00:04:23] Speaker B: When in doubt, Esther.
[00:04:25] Speaker D: Yeah. And FYI, I got that role.
[00:04:28] Speaker B: Oh, congratulations. Good for you.
[00:04:30] Speaker D: Thank you. It was my first and last starring role. But, you know, a pivotal moment for me at Temple and the other piece about that is that, you know, mom we know, loves to sing and play the piano. Temple of Israel has a highly competitive choir. They're not just, you know, members of the congregation to get to come and sing. There's tryouts, there's rehearsals, there's.
And they are stunning. I mean, one of the reasons that I actually really enjoyed going to services was listening to the choir. And mom was a member of that choir for years. And I will tell you, I think it's one of her crowning achievements. I think there were few things she is more proud of than her participation in that choir. Had to leave the choir one day I got sick because it just required too much of a time commitment. She couldn't leave home. Interestingly, when one of the reasons I knew mom needed to stop driving is because, you know, Temple Israel started in Detroit, near where we live, and then moved to West Bloomfield, far from where
[00:05:32] Speaker C: we lived at the time.
[00:05:33] Speaker D: The freeway didn't go all the way through. It didn't connect Eastern, western metro Detroit. And she was driving to choir rehearsals when I started to realize she probably shouldn't be driving that far in the evening and kind of sort of led to a change for her. But it was a very big part of her life and her religious life, which I thought was really meaningful indeed.
[00:05:58] Speaker B: And on that note, I think we're ready for Rabbi Josh and to hear what he has to say.
In the meantime, here's a little ditty from mom and we'll be right back.
[00:06:15] Speaker C: When you see
[00:06:20] Speaker D: 1, 2, 3,
[00:06:36] Speaker B: And
[00:06:36] Speaker A: you are only coming to be.
[00:06:52] Speaker B: So what we prefer to do here is, as the audience picks us up midstream, is we just start talking, even though it's recording, no formal beginning.
And usually there's some banter.
Some of our comments that we've had, Rabbi Josh, is that they like the information we give, but they also prefer the banter. So this is the designated official banter section right now. If you'd like to offer anything.
[00:07:17] Speaker E: I can banter about anything. Jewish prevention. The Tigers. Tell me what.
[00:07:23] Speaker B: That's a good one. The Tigers. I mean, I like the pitching staff. I like what's coming up. I like the pacheco on the Lions side as well. I mean, those are a couple things that come to mind right now.
[00:07:33] Speaker E: So I'm not thinking much about the Lions. Not that I don't like the Lions, but I'm a baseball guy first and foremost. And as always, I just want to remind everybody we are in first place. The Tigers are currently in first place.
[00:07:45] Speaker B: That's correct.
[00:07:45] Speaker E: And my prediction, by the way, for the season, and this is going to be recorded, my prediction is that they will get 90 wins on the season and make the playoffs and we'll see what happens from there.
[00:07:57] Speaker B: Karen, what do you think about that? Was that the range you were prediction?
[00:08:00] Speaker C: Yes, that's exactly my exact same prediction. So I'm putting that on the record as well. I feel badly that I don't really follow Detroit sports like I should. I'm excited for them and I think it's, you know, great when we are successful, but I'm not sad when we're not.
[00:08:16] Speaker E: Well, what do you follow?
[00:08:19] Speaker C: I mean, really, do you want to know? I follow everything relating to Real Housewives and Bravo. That's my pastime. I can make lots of predictions on those.
[00:08:28] Speaker E: I could justify the hgtv. But Bravo, that's just trash. That's trash.
[00:08:35] Speaker C: But also, don't you think we need some room in our lives just for mindless trash?
[00:08:40] Speaker E: Yeah, for me, that's hgtv. I like that. Or the Bachelor. I'm a Bachelor guy also.
[00:08:44] Speaker D: What.
[00:08:44] Speaker C: I mean, are you watching Love is Blind? Have you picked that one up yet?
[00:08:47] Speaker E: We've watched Love is Blind. I don't love it as much. I don't actually believe in Love is Blind, although I would be happy if there are any Love is Blind contestants out there. I'd be happy the Rabbi, if that comes to that.
[00:08:59] Speaker C: I think that Love is Blind lends itself for people my age. I think they should do a whole show of people who are older and, you know, maybe looking for love a second or third time around, because, let's face it, we have to be a little bit more blind as we age.
[00:09:14] Speaker E: The blinder the better.
[00:09:15] Speaker C: The blinder the better. And in fact, like, legit, the people might be blind. I mean, maybe that's a great segue
[00:09:21] Speaker B: into our first question. Rabbi, from a rabbinical perspective, why do we find such comfort and joy from trashy reality shows?
[00:09:29] Speaker C: Oh, my gosh, that's a whole other podcast.
[00:09:31] Speaker E: No, I actually think it's relevant here because I do believe that life is so overwhelmingly dark at its core if we don't pay attention to the lightness. And I think that sometimes that trashy tv, that mindless stuff, even. Even. I think what we're seeing on our phones, some of the garbage, brain rot kinds stuff on. On TikTok and Instagram, it. It allows us to sort of forget about and ignore that, which is challenging. And let's face it, the world is on fire right now. But I also think it's important for us to dive into that which hurts. And Jewish tradition has been really, really good about saying, and it's not always easy, but we're a community. We get through it. We figure it out. So I think there's the balance. And. And it's okay to have some mindless guilty pleasures and focus on self improvement and personal growth.
[00:10:33] Speaker C: Thank you. I appreciate that. I also, just for the record, consider myself to be a relatively intellectual person. So I think my pursuit of something that may be less highbrow kind of, you know, makes me a little more balanced. I like it.
[00:10:50] Speaker E: I agree. I agree. And as the rabbi, people don't. Well, I guess. Now, what's that new show about the hot rabbi? You know, that's.
[00:10:57] Speaker C: Nobody wants this.
[00:10:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:10:58] Speaker C: That's changed our whole perspective of rabbi.
[00:11:01] Speaker E: Yeah.
Because everybody expects the rabbi to be perfect and to live life according to rules, even though they don't play by the rules. So I guess even the rabbi is allowed to watch the Bachelor and enjoy
[00:11:13] Speaker C: that and I hope you'll watch. Nobody wants this because also, Joy, I did.
[00:11:17] Speaker E: I did. I liked it. I liked it.
[00:11:18] Speaker C: I like it. All right, I'm going to jump in with your introduction. We are so fortun here with Rabbi Josh Bennett from Temple Israel in West Bloomfield, Michigan. Rabbi Josh is also the podcast host of a beautiful technically 18 minute podcast called Waking up to Life, which is actually how we connected with you originally. And Rabbi, if it's okay, one, do you want us to call you Rabbi Bennett or do you want us to call you Rabbi Josh?
[00:11:47] Speaker E: First of all, I don't care. I have a strong understanding that people call me what they need me to be. So when I walk into somebody's house for a Shiva, I'm Rabbi Bennett, and when I walk into a youth group event, I'm Rabbi Josh. So here on a podcast, pick. Doesn't matter.
[00:12:00] Speaker C: Beautiful. All right, well, will you start off by just telling us a little bit about yourself, background on the congregation, how you decided to become a rabbi. I'm always fascinated by those stories.
[00:12:10] Speaker E: Yes, and a quick, shameless plug. I just started a second podcast called One Verse.
Comes out almost every Friday if I've been good about it. It's a three or four minute podcast, very short form, and it is literally taking one verse from each week's Torah portion and just sharing what I'm thinking about that day. Just a quick one verse of the Torah portion and what it means for me, for the world, a thought. So it's called One Verse. A lot of fun, Easy Friday morning listen on the way to work.
[00:12:43] Speaker C: Can you find it on Spotify, Apple, Amazon?
[00:12:46] Speaker E: You can find it wherever you get your podcast.
[00:12:49] Speaker C: Nicely said.
[00:12:52] Speaker E: Okay, so I grew up in the Chicago area. I was actually born in Fort Worth, Texas. My father was a professor of pathology who taught around the country. My bris was on Yom Kippur.
So that means two things. I was destined to become a rabbi. And my parents were thrilled that they didn't have to serve food at the party afterwards. It was the cheapest bris ever.
Grew up mostly in the Midwest, ended up in Chicago. I went to high school in Chicago, college at the University of Illinois, where studied psychology.
And I was always a child of the Reform movement. I went to Reform Jewish summer camp. I was active in my Jewish youth group.
And I saw Judaism as an important part of who I was. My family was very involved, not particularly observant, but very involved in a Reform congregation in Flossmoor, Illinois, southern suburbs of Chicago. And I also have an older brother who's a rabbi. So I saw the idea of being a rabbi as a viable career choice. So the combination of that, my psychology degree, and years of summer camp where I was connecting with cool rabbis, I made this decision to go into the rabbinate, went to Hebrew Union College, and have ended up here in Detroit. I've been here almost 33 years. It's my first and only job. We are one of the only congregations in the country where rabbis don't leave. We come as young rabbis, run the youth group for a number of years, and then transition into the next phase of our career.
And I feel really lucky to be part of this Detroit community. Even as a Chicago boy who had absolutely no intention of coming to Detroit. It's been the most important and wonderful choice of my life. I'm also married. My wife Meg, is a producer in the large corporate event space, and I have three kids. Maddie, who is a psychologist in Chicago. Zachary, who works in Detroit for 313 presents in the entertainment world, and my youngest, Jacob, studying psychology at Arizona State University. How's that for my life story?
[00:14:51] Speaker B: Perfect.
[00:14:51] Speaker C: Fantastic. And also, you really tied it up in a short period of time. That was very impressive. I do agree with you.
[00:14:58] Speaker D: You're right.
[00:14:59] Speaker C: I didn't even think about the fact that Temple Israel rabbis don't leave.
[00:15:02] Speaker E: Yeah, it's something that I think is unique in the world of Judaism because if you think about it, I got to come and be a young, fun rabbi to the teenagers. And then by staying here, those are the kids that I get to offic at their weddings and do their parents and grandparents, funerals, life cycle events along the way. And so one of the most important things, and this may come to play in our conversation today, is that relationship is more important than anything else. So being able to be here for a lifetime allows me to build relationships. And it is an opportunity not to think that if you make a mistake, something bad's going to happen. And I think that that's really important. Making mistakes allows us to grow. And here at Temple Israel, I've been given the chance to make mistakes and go to the next step after that to create something really exciting for the future of Judaism.
[00:15:52] Speaker B: Well, you know, they can't get rid of you because I got that the rabbis stay forever thing going. So it gives you some free rein to really riff on the whole rabbi thing every once in a while. It's funny, what you say resonates a lot. You know, almost a little surprising to hear that you were growing up very reformed and I guess not surprising. That you became a reformed rabbi. But the way you describe your childhood is it sounds very similar to mine and Karen's maybe a little bit, because we were very much a product of the Temple Israel community growing up. I was very active in everything Temple Israel, got bar mitzvah, got confirmed, went to Israel, graduated high school. And, you know, was I studying very hard in those high school temple classes? No. But I was really looking forward to. To going and hanging out with my friends and sometimes skipping class and going to tally hall. And, you know, it was like a wonderful second life of the social world that I didn't have just from growing up in Huntington Woods. And so, like, you might see a recurring theme coming up here, which is the two of us, Karen and I are like, I would say, very religious people, but I feel a very strong affinity of being a Jew and being a member of the Jewish community. How do you. So, like, we haven't really leaned on spirituality that much with this journey with our mom.
And so we're looking forward to hearing any advice you have on how we can lean into that more and generally. First question, how can spirituality play a role in helping you care in these difficult situations when you see the decline of a loved one?
[00:17:26] Speaker E: So, first of all, if I can, I want to take a quick reversal here. I want to correct your language very kindly. You said you're not religious, and I want to change that language because I think that we as reformed Jews are often seen as people who are not as religious as other parts of the Jewish community. I like to use the language we're not as observant because I'm very religious. I think you're very religious. Right. Your engagement in the Jewish community was very strong and still is. You just have chosen a less observant lifestyle, and that's one of the choices that Reform Judaism gives us. So I hope you'll accept that. Just minor correction to absolutely. But I think actually that plays into my answer to your question, which is spirituality or how do we use Judaism in this framework of caring for loved ones is exactly that same choice. And if you want to bring spirituality into your relationship with your mom, in this case, or anyone who's caring for a loved one, you can do that in a variety of ways. So you can make personal prayer and spiritual endeavors part of your daily life, whether that's coming to Shabbat services and engaging in the community and finding your spiritual respite care by yourself, or you can do that with your mom. And it goes back to the relationship thing. Right. Judaism is a religion of relationship. So every time you are with your mom, you are engaging in a spiritual relationship that is, I think, backed up by Jewish tradition. We are a religion who says the people in our lives matter. That's why so many of the commandments in the Bible are human to human. And give me one second to just go extend this. Reform rabbis or early Reform Jews. As the movement was being developed, rather than seeing the commandments as a bunch of thou shalt and a bunch of thou shalt nots, they actually divided the commandments into two categories. Those commandments, ben adam le makom between us and God, and those commandments, ben adam lechave ro between humans and humans, all of the commandments between us and God. In Reform Judaism, those are optional. Each Jew has to make that choice on their own. But the relationship ones, the commandments about our relationships with other people, we are obligated to that. So every time you do your work with your mom, you are actually observing a commandment. You are bringing spiritual Judaism into your life. Most obviously on your mother and father. Right? That's the easiest way to see it. But it's so much deeper than that. Judaism is about building human relationships.
[00:20:12] Speaker B: That's interesting because I also noticed that since we've gone down this journey, gradually I wake up and I look around and like, oh, there's a ton of Jewish observant things going on, you know, just through Jewish family services and all the wonderful things that they do with bringing someone in to play music with her and give her manicures and introduce her to dogs. It's like there's a lot of observant things that may not be about reading the Torah that are definitely Jewish and are definitely very beneficial to her. Do you find that people within your congregation, as you're going down this road, using that term, observant that you bring up, Are they sometimes becoming more observant and leaning into that faith when they are faced with this journey?
[00:20:59] Speaker E: You know, I think people, the word spirituality has become sort of a catchphrase in modern society. How do we access our spiritual being? And it was Kabbalah, and it was all sorts of shamanistic practices that are becoming really popular. Even I think people were finding it in yoga. So I think people have always been seeking that spiritual. And to directly answer your question, yes, I think, interestingly enough, people are finding observance, actual doing of commandments as another access point for that spirituality. So there's one commandment in the book of Leviticus that says, don't put a Stumbling block in front of a blind person. And nobody thinks of that commandment when we're walking down the street. And yet every time you care for someone else and you make sure that they don't have impediments in front of them, you are observing that commandment. And I think people more and more are leaning into synagogue life, observance of rituals to find meaning and spirituality.
[00:22:07] Speaker B: And on that note, like I recall, not surprisingly, as I got older and into high school, I became less thrilled with the act of going to services and having to sit there and honestly to read through a lot of the things. But then I turned another corner where I found that going to the synagogue was almost like a very meditative experience.
And I enjoyed. I took Hebrew, but I can't speak Hebrew, but I can still follow along with, like the Torah portions. And I find that I.
I find some comfort and value in looking at that book and trying to follow along and experiencing that simple form of meditation.
Is there something about the act of prayer or doing something like that that is actually physiological or mentally beneficial for you that you found?
[00:22:57] Speaker E: There's an enormous amount of research about this. And prayer is absolutely linked to better health, longevity, and personal satisfaction that has been researched over and over again. And people who pray, people who are engaged in spiritual communities, inevitably live longer and better lives. But there's something interesting that I've noticed when I look out on Shabbat services on a Friday night, I notice that the vast majority of the population are our age and older. Right. There are not a lot of young people coming. And so one of two things. Either we haven't done a good job of sharing that message with young people, or there is something natural about, as we age, wanting or needing more of that spiritual content in our lives. And then we start to find access to what you're talking about, the idea that prayer and community really matters. I hope it's the latter because that means I don't have to worry that. That my children won't eventually get there. But I do think it's a problem. Right. We have not done a great job of letting young people know that they too can access prayer spirituality in the synagogue, not just their yoga studio.
[00:24:10] Speaker C: Well, right. And actually, it's interesting that you bring that up, because if I'm being honest, and why wouldn't we? Because if you're lying to a rabbi, it's a slippery slope. But I really don't have a belief in God. But I am a daily practitioner of yoga, and my yoga community has gotten me through some really challenging times. They are the people who are part of my daily practice and part of if I am struggling, I find myself on the mat.
So when you bring that up, it almost sort of brings me a little bit of comfort because I do have to say that sometimes when a tragic situation happens or you're in a challenging situation, people will say, oh, well, you know, put your faith in God. Or if somebody passes away, especially in a tragic way, well, he's in God's hands, or he's in a better place, or all those kinds of terms. And when I hear that, I think that must feel very lovely to believe that. And I often struggle with the fact that I don't, to the point where I often wonder, well, am I missing something? Am I not trying hard enough to be a believer? Especially when I have watched now my second parent struggle through Alzheimer's. And I do find it to be pretty gut wrenching. Even though my mother is as joyful as she can be, it's hard.
[00:25:34] Speaker E: So are you willing to play a little game with me?
[00:25:36] Speaker C: I am, yes. What if I said no? That would be terrible.
[00:25:41] Speaker E: You would have shut me down. And then there is a rule of improvisation where you never say no, you say yes. And so.
[00:25:48] Speaker C: Oh, that's funny because we've been talking about that as a question for you later. So, yes, I am ready to play a game.
[00:25:54] Speaker E: Okay. You said you don't believe in God, and then you talked about your yoga practice and how you felt rooted in that yoga practice. So could you just tell us what you don't believe in?
[00:26:04] Speaker C: Well, you know, it's funny because I was not a science kid growing up. You know, we're literary people in our family, and so language arts was my thing. But I have felt, as I've gotten older, one, I think I felt maybe a level of sort of forced religion, forced observance. When I was a kid, though, I too went to Jewish summer camps and
[00:26:26] Speaker D: all of those pieces.
[00:26:27] Speaker C: And it was a huge part of my life, and I loved it. And I also loved being part of services.
But as I got older, I felt like I needed a proof. Show me that that's true.
How is this not just a series of coincidences? And how do we believe in this sort of magical being that.
But it almost sounds like a myth to me.
[00:26:53] Speaker E: Andrew, she's so good. She didn't answer the question at all.
I asked her, what does she not believe in? And she couldn't tell me. And I think that's the point.
[00:27:03] Speaker C: You're right.
[00:27:04] Speaker D: Thank You.
[00:27:04] Speaker E: You don't believe in the man in the sky who controls things. You don't believe in the unprovable, whatever.
But when we actually look at something like a tree that grows and the seed goes in the ground, and the water comes and then the sun, and the plant grows, and ultimately it reseeds, and I ask you, how does that happen? You can give me a scientific explanation. And then at some point, we're going to get to this moment where we look and say, well, but how did that happen? And there's going to be no answer. And then we're all going to agree that something made it happen.
And I call that unknowable. God. That's my word. I think that we all actually believe in God, and that's such a bold statement. I think we all believe in God. We just don't have a language for it. You go to your yoga class and you feel that force, that energy.
Some. Some communities call it chi, the life force.
We call it neshama breath in Judaism or ruach spirit.
It's that force in the universe. We may not have language to talk about it, but it's there for all of us. And we may not be able to see it, touch it, hear it, and that makes it really hard to understand and call it something. But I'm pretty sure if I have long enough, we all believe in something bigger than us.
[00:28:27] Speaker C: Well, actually.
[00:28:28] Speaker B: Go ahead, Karen. Go ahead.
[00:28:30] Speaker C: There are two things that I wanted to bring up. One, when we met with you, and you brought this up as well today, you talked about that concept of honoring your father and your mother as part of the commandments. And I think that I had not really fully looked at our care of our mother. Sorry, I'm emotional about this, but I.
I didn't really think about our care of our mother as a way that we're really also honoring our father, which means something very deep to me because I feel like he is watching us and he's grateful for what we're doing for her.
And then on another note, the studio where I practice yoga, Citizen Yoga, does this event every August where they have a fundraiser at University of Michigan Stadium, and they gather 1,200 people to practice yoga on the floor of the U of M Stadium. And it is magical and powerful.
And I feel in loved ones who I've lost visiting me in that space. And I do a lot of yoga retreats where I'm allowed to just let go of my daily obligations.
And I feel sometimes when I'm lying in Shavasana, like my hand being held by my dad or my nephew.
[00:29:47] Speaker E: So you don't believe in God, but you believe in your dad's spirit holding your hand during yoga?
[00:29:53] Speaker C: No, I believe that rabbis make us cry during our own podcast also. So thanks for that.
[00:29:59] Speaker B: Is it wrong that I'm not crying? I feel sad, too. I just want anybody to know.
[00:30:03] Speaker C: You do not.
No feelings.
[00:30:05] Speaker E: I just think it's so irrational, right? All of this stuff is so irrational. It's hard for us rational beings to wrap our heads around that.
[00:30:14] Speaker B: And I would say, also, like, something you were saying earlier relates a little bit more to my approach to God, which is if someone asks me if I believe in God, I say, absolutely, but I believe in a God that's more relevant to nature, as you were describing. Like, you can't look around and have so many unexplained whys. Like a little child who just keeps asking why and keeps asking why. And then in the end, there is no answer to the final one. You get there eventually. And it's impossible for me to believe that with so much uncertainty and so much unanswerable questions out there. There's something else. Whatever that is. I don't know what that is, but there's something else. But I also believe that I don't need, no offense to Judaism or Christianity or Islam or Buddhism. Like, I don't need a specific book or set of laws written down by probably some man sometime long ago to tell me how to live and what's right and wrong. Like, I can look in nature and know what's right and wrong. Like, I don't need a book to tell me that. But the other thing about God, which you know, which I believe as well, is that if someone asks the question, does God exist? I also answer, absolutely. And I actually answer that because most of the people, an overwhelming majority of the people of the world, you probably have this stat, Rabbi. They believe that God exists. So if everyone believes something exists in whatever form that is, doesn't it by definition exist?
[00:31:37] Speaker E: Well, and I actually have a different answer when people ask me, I say, I have no ide. I know what I think. I know what works for me, but I don't know. And by the way, if I'm wrong and I find out later I was wrong, I'll be the first to admit it. But right now, without really knowing, I use your example, right? The universe around me is proof enough that God exists. And, Andrew, I do want to push back a little bit. I agree. We don't need this book. Or that book. But we might need a book or a set of laws because that helps us create community. Around that book are laws. And actually, I think we do need community. I don't think we can do this thing called life alone.
[00:32:18] Speaker B: And I feel like. I kind of feel like we have that book in our hearts. Like, if you look at all the major religions, 10 Commandments pretty much guides what is right and wrong and how we should live. And I think most people of the world believe in those general tenets of existence. And.
And that is useful. And of course, community is vital to
[00:32:37] Speaker C: all of that, for sure. I also wonder, is it this godlike situation that's turned mom into this sweet old lady, as opposed to the crotchety, not so nice one?
[00:32:46] Speaker B: That's what she's looking for, that there is a God.
[00:32:49] Speaker C: She would be really hard to take care of in her old state.
[00:32:53] Speaker E: So all of these predictors of God's existence, and yet you're not sure you believe.
[00:32:58] Speaker C: I mean, who would have known that you could have turned my philosophy in such a short period of time?
[00:33:06] Speaker E: I'm available for consultation with anybody who doesn't believe in God.
[00:33:10] Speaker C: Okay, I do have a question. Not technically related to God, but I assume that as a rabbi, you meet with people who are suffering from dementia from stages of Alzheimer's. And I would imagine that a lot
[00:33:23] Speaker D: of the comfort that you're bringing is
[00:33:25] Speaker C: to the family, which is important. We need that.
But I wonder, how do you provide support for the person who's actually suffering through dementia or stages of Alzheimer's?
[00:33:36] Speaker E: That is so hard, because when you're so right, when I am with a family for a funeral, I'm very admittedly not serving the deceased person other than honoring their memory. I am serving the living survivors who I'm given this gift to be able to walk them through a challenging time with dementia, Alzheimer's, or even other long term end of life challenges. I have this dual responsibility to take care of the family, who is the primary responsibility, and the person suffering, who, in the case of dementia, I guess, thankfully doesn't have the same consciousness.
And yet we're all human. And one of the things I learned from you in listening to the podcast that I was turned onto when you interviewed Howard Krugel about his father, was the humanity in that relationship with your mom. And I think that is the answer here. I think that we are just obligated, I am obligated as a rabbi to lean into somebody's humanity and to recognize that while they may not experience the world the same way that they did 10 years ago. They are human.
They have feelings, they have emotions.
And as best I can, I want to serve those feelings, emotions, reactions. I don't know if that's the right answer, but it seems like the only answer.
[00:35:11] Speaker C: Right. And I don't think there is a right answer to that. I think anybody who can bring us any level of comfort, we welcome it. Because the challenge of this is just so overwhelming and prevalent.
[00:35:24] Speaker B: It's getting more and more said earlier about not, you know, you don't know. I think that applies here as well, because you don't know what someone with dementia is receiving. Do they know you? Do they know your name? Do they understand the words you're saying? Are they experiencing joy just from having you near them?
There is a lot of you don't knows what's going on in that mind. So treating them with some human dignity and assumptions that maybe something's getting through, and if not, just being there is okay as well, that seems like an appropriate way to be in those situations.
[00:35:58] Speaker E: That's exactly the advice that I often give to families. Sitting by the bedside of a person who is very near the end of life, unconscious. I say to them, we don't know. We don't know what your loved one hears or experiences. So be kind.
[00:36:14] Speaker B: I think that's a beautiful and poignant way to close this out. Rabbi, thank you so much for being with us. This was an absolutely wonderful conversation. Thrilling.
[00:36:24] Speaker E: Thank you so much.
[00:36:25] Speaker C: We really are so grateful that you took your time to chat with us. This is my first cry in our 14 episodes that we've done so far. So leave it to you.
[00:36:35] Speaker B: I'm have to correct you there. I feel like there was some tears with Howard as well. When Howard was on, there was a little crying.
[00:36:40] Speaker C: Yeah, I did do a lot.
[00:36:41] Speaker B: Again, I was not crying in that one, but you were definitely crying.
[00:36:44] Speaker C: You're a heartless soul. But in fairness, at the very end,
[00:36:47] Speaker B: cry on the inside. Rabbi, I think you know what that's about.
[00:36:49] Speaker E: Listen, my children, tell me I'm heartless because of what I do. We recently had to put our dog to sleep, which was a terrible moment. And they sent me because I'm the heartless monster in the family.
[00:37:00] Speaker C: So it's a scary thought.
[00:37:03] Speaker E: Terrible.
[00:37:04] Speaker C: I would imagine, by the way, that that is not true. You seem to have a great deal of warmth, and we really appreciate you offering your time to us today.
[00:37:15] Speaker E: Thank you for having me.
[00:37:16] Speaker C: Thank you.
[00:37:43] Speaker B: And we are back.
Fascinating discussion with Rabbi Josh.
Just quickly, it should be mentioned you may be aware, some of our listeners, that there was a horrible incident at Temple Israel.
We recorded that interview with Rabbi Josh one day before that happened. And we just wanted to say that we're just overly thankful that everyone is ok.
And thank you to the heroes of the security staff and law enforcement and everybody that made sure that didn't become an absolute nightmare.
And unfortunately, this is the world we live in. I don't want to comment too much on that beyond that, except to say that just we're really, really happy that it wasn't worse than it could have been. And Rabbi Josh is okay.
We can confirm that as well as everyone else who was in and around
[00:38:38] Speaker D: the building, the preschoolers in the building, the staff, even those, you know, first responders, they are physically okay. It was shocking because I was editing the interview with Rabbi Josh when Julie, our sister, sent me a message that our niece, who's a reporter for BBC, had gotten word that there had been an incident at Temple Israel. And I thought my confused because I'm in the middle of this editing piece. And in fact I wasn't confused. It was real and it was true. And yes, we're grateful that everyone is okay.
[00:39:21] Speaker B: Yes, we are.
So if you don't mind, we are going to at least talk about our takeaways for another discussion with Rabbi Josh.
He would want us to go on. And we are going to go on.
And I was just pleasantly surprised how the discussion veered kind of tangentially away from caregiving and just into spirituality in general. And I would just like to ask you this question, Karen, after our discussion with Rabbi Josh. Do you now believe in God?
[00:39:55] Speaker D: I mean, really, you, all of you.
You know what? It was an piece because first of all, I really welcome the open mindedness, especially of a rabbi of a reformed temple that I do think is really rooted in the belief in God in general. Certainly there are other sects of Judaism that are focused. You know, there's a whole level of humanistic Judaism that focuses on spirituality and culture, but veers away from the belief in God. I'm not even really convinced that that's the congregation. For me, I appreciated that we could look at it from the nuance of maybe there's something out there, some.
[00:40:37] Speaker B: Exactly right.
[00:40:38] Speaker D: Yeah. And that idea that, that guides us, that it lives within us in a thoughtful and meaningful ways, it allows us to welcome it in.
Whether we call that God as we talked about or whether we call that something else, I don't know. But it left me open to considering that there May be other forces that surround us in the universe. How's that?
[00:41:13] Speaker B: Well, I. Yeah, and I think. Yeah, the. The. The naming of it and the. The terminology that you use for whatever that is is less important, especially for you. But I also do like how he was able to.
What I thought, just as a casual observer, illuminates you that you do have spiritual moments in your life that do occur that are unexplainable and are definitely not of this world. And that's something. You know, And I think that one thing I didn't mention when we were on the chat with Rabbi Josh, that I always found I was talking a little bit about my approach to all this and what I believe. And the one thing that I remember traveling. I don't know if you had this experience traveling through Asia, especially, like in a place like Chiang Mai or some of these other places where there's a lot of Buddhist temples around. And, you know, Bali is just littered with temples and spirituality and holidays every week. And whenever I. Even if it's not like a Jewish temple, if I go into a place of worship like a Buddhist temple and I sit there, I feel something. And it's not like there's God. I can touch him and feel him. But like the fact that so many other physical human beings, over decades, and if you go to Asia, sometimes hundreds of years, have sat in that room with hope in their heart or saying a prayer or wishing for something or thinking about someone.
I believe there is some energy there that lingers that is useful and valuable to us as humans here. And there's something useful and valuable and precious about just sitting in a room where others are also sitting and taking a moment to contemplate life and think about something good and wish for something good. And I just. I'm a believer in those good vibes. They have real, real value in our lives.
[00:43:11] Speaker D: I would go along with that completely. And, I mean, who doesn't need more good vibes in a world that can be tumultuous and challenging? So we'll take it.
[00:43:21] Speaker B: I think that's a great place to leave it.
And as you know, we're not quite done because coming up within millisecon is Joanna Edelson to play us out.
[00:43:33] Speaker C: As always, please, like, listen, subscribe, share,
[00:43:38] Speaker D: Offer your
[email protected] and we look forward
[00:43:45] Speaker C: to catching you next time.
[00:43:51] Speaker A: I see trees of blue Red rises, too I see them all for me and you and I say to myself what a wonderful world Good skies
[00:44:22] Speaker E: I
[00:44:22] Speaker A: see skies of blue Clouds of white and clouds of white, the bright sunny days and dark sacred nights. And I say to myself,
[00:44:44] Speaker E: while Washington.
