[00:00:00] Speaker A: Where you.
[00:00:17] Speaker B: And the dreams that you knew always would come.
[00:00:27] Speaker C: How are you?
[00:00:28] Speaker A: I'm good.
Do you want to discuss your recent trip that you took while I stayed at mom's house in heat wave with no power for four days? Oops, sorry. I mean, did you have a great trip?
[00:00:39] Speaker C: I have a couple things to say. First of all, my luck turned from, like, horrendous luck to the best luck to the worst luck for you.
The night before, I got on a very early flight to go for a couple weeks into the California desert for a reunion with some old friends.
A really quick wind tunnel, thunderstorm thing, vortex that we now get came through. It was literally like 15 minutes, but did enough damage to have most of southeastern Michigan out of power for three full days.
So I left, and you had to deal with it. Thank you so much for dealing with it.
[00:01:19] Speaker A: I love that when I went to pick you up to take you to the airport at o dark hundred and you said, oh, yeah, Mom's power's out. You know, they estimate a couple days, but, you know, that never happens. It'll be fine. I'm sure it'll be back on later. That was the Fourth of July.
It was, I think, 100 degrees that day, maybe.
And, yeah, with each passing day, I became more and more unpleasant.
Mom, however, bless her sweet little heart, was completely unfazed. And when I really had to dig in and think about, okay, well, what's the big difference for mom?
Well, one, her bedroom's on the first floor, obviously, and it stays cool on the first floor.
Two, she doesn't. I don't think she feels those differentials of heat and cold to the same level that we do. But the biggest piece for her is that she loves to sit in her chair in the living room and rip apart magazines and look at old books and photo albums. And she listens to music.
And we couldn't play music other than if I played music on my phone, But I was afraid to do that because there really weren't places that you could easily go to charge because everyone we knew, or most people we knew were out of power.
So we sang together a little bit.
I tried to take her for walks when I could, but it was crazy, crazy hot out. But she was just unfazed, going through the motions, smiling, joyous like she always is.
I was fit to be tied. I was unpleasant to the point where some of my friends who were checking in to say, all right, how are you doing? Power back on. One of them said, why don't you just get back to me, when the power comes back on. I think we need some space right now. Because I wasn't delightful.
[00:03:11] Speaker C: I couldn't believe it was three days that happened recently.
And it went out on a Friday
[00:03:18] Speaker A: night, and it came back late Monday night.
[00:03:21] Speaker C: We're still living in this world where we have power lines above ground and a branch falls and breaks the transformer. And they fixed it within four hours last time in our neighborhood. I was absolutely shocked. But then, you know, I'm relatively new back in town. My friends also were out for three days, and they said it's very common that days go by, which is.
[00:03:44] Speaker A: And here was an interesting piece. My power. I live in the next town over. My power didn't go out in that Friday night storm. So I thought, okay, worst comes to worse, I can navigate mom over to my house. It's not easy to get her out of the house, but I can do it.
But then the next day, out of nowhere, in the most beautiful, warm, sunny day, my power goes out and also is out for the same couple days. So, yeah. Anyway, I hope you had a great trip. Was it lovely?
[00:04:10] Speaker C: I did. Sorry, I've got a couple more things I have to cover here. One is I'd also like to go back to what when you were out of town. And I really enjoyed your place, which I do on my breaks while you're out of town on your trips. And I just wanted to make a comment, and you should take this as a compliment. Cause I love this game that I do, which is usually when you leave, you run the dishwasher before you go, like, whatever's there. And you're very polite to say, hey, dishes are clean in the dishwasher. It's not a signal to unload it. And I know it's not. But just letting you know, that's the situation.
But I have come to really enjoy unloading the dishwasher because it's a wonderful little game for someone like you. Because for every placement of every little thing that's in the dishwasher, there is a correct decision.
There is no, it's not open to interpretation. There is a spot that it should go that has been carefully curated. And I like trying to figure out the spot. And believe me, there's plenty of times where I think I got it. Like, oh, yeah, it's here. And then later, I open up another drawer, I'm like, oh, no, no, it's here.
[00:05:13] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:14] Speaker C: Well. So I would like to ask you, when you return, how did I do? I mean, I.
[00:05:19] Speaker A: Generally speaking, 92%. Really? That's it?
[00:05:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:05:24] Speaker C: What are some of my mistakes?
[00:05:25] Speaker A: Well, I. I mean, I just discovered one recently that I had. I must have had sushi. And I use my little. Those little colorful tiny bowls for soy sauce.
[00:05:35] Speaker C: Yes, I know exactly what you're talking about.
[00:05:37] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I believe that you put. Put that in the Tupperware drawer when in fact it goes up above where the.
[00:05:44] Speaker C: No, it goes top right to the right of the dishes. No, I didn't do that. That's not me. I know where it goes because there's another set of those above. When you open it, you have the white dishes and to the right, there's little section of those right to the left.
[00:05:58] Speaker A: Oh, that's why you put it to the right. It goes to the left.
[00:06:01] Speaker C: Oh, maybe that's my mistake.
[00:06:02] Speaker A: It's above 94.
[00:06:03] Speaker C: 94.
[00:06:04] Speaker A: Okay.
I could not find.
Was it my travel coffee mug? Maybe?
I don't know. There were just a few.
[00:06:13] Speaker C: I did have that. You know what? That was one. You have to look up really high in the pantry. It might be way up there. And I was thinking maybe this is wrong because there's no way she could like reach up here. And I don't think that she would have a ladder be involved in a daily use.
[00:06:30] Speaker A: No, it's the bottom of that tall shelf. It goes on the bottom one. There's room. It has to have a little scooch. So maybe you felt that I wouldn't scooch it as much. But in general, maybe I wasn't being you a 95%. Also, I think it's kind that you empty the dishwasher. I like to run my dishwasher when I leave because I like clean dishes when I come back.
[00:06:49] Speaker C: Of course, you don't want to leave dirty dishes in the dishwasher. No, that makes sense.
[00:06:52] Speaker A: So good news, you know, because you're taking me to the airport this Saturday, I'm doing a little trip and I will be sure to run the dishwasher before we leave.
[00:07:01] Speaker C: Can't wait. Can't wait. And so just briefly on my trip, I will say just once again how great it is to get away to big nature and beauty, which is the biggest thing I miss since moving back from California. And this was one of the first trips ever where I went to Southern California. I didn't go to LA because our reunion was in the Palm Springs Valley area and a couple of my friends have moved out there. I spent some time in Palm Springs, in Beaumont, in Joshua Tree. And I just really love the Desert. It was also like 110 there, but of course it's a dry heat.
[00:07:37] Speaker B: Yeah, that's cool.
[00:07:38] Speaker C: I did have air conditioning and a pool, so I wasn't suffering at all.
And it's a really nice recharge. And I continue to go on this mode of like when I go on vacation, I like to go and live with my friends somewhere. Like, I haven't done a new experience vacation in a long time. Part of me is like, yeah, I should do that and I will. But I just really like going to someone's house, hanging out there and just living there for a little while.
That's my vibe.
[00:08:09] Speaker A: Well, the joy for you is that you have friends who live in these great places with lovely homes to stay in. Why would you want to go elsewhere? I want to vacation in your friends homes.
[00:08:18] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a good choice.
[00:08:20] Speaker A: Perfect. All right, let's talk about today.
I want to give a little background on our guest and explain his purpose for being here because, you know, every now and then we get a little, I guess, off topic if you think about specifics of dementia, Alzheimer's, that kind of level of care. But last episode we chatted with Ray Levine about long term care insurance and he brought something up that I had not even thought of, which is we think of long term care insurance very specifically for I am getting old and I may need to be in assisted living or I might need care at home, et cetera, et cetera. And that's always what I think of when I think of long term care.
And then he brought up the idea that what if you are in a catastrophic accident or something catastrophic happens to you, you need to have long term care insurance. And I never thought about that because I always think, well, no, that's what your health insurance is for.
But the fact is that that isn't necessarily the case. I mean, right. Were you, did you agree that that was.
We were both kind of like, well, I never thought about that.
[00:09:29] Speaker C: Yeah, no, I think we talked about it in the takeaways. That was one of my biggest takeaways, which is right now I am living in a risky situation because if I was befouled by some disease, knock on wood, hope that doesn't happen or get an accident.
The current insurance I have doesn't last for the rest of my life. So something has to happen.
And it's just something we all have to think about. Obviously. Hopefully it doesn't. But at any age, something that you don't expect could happen that puts you in a Medically precarious situation. And we're going to have a good friend of ours on today who has gone through that situation, and he's going to tell us his experience. Just a little warning that it's going to get a little bit heavy with some of the details of his actual accident. He's going to walk us through that and what happened. We don't get into too much detail, but it will be a little bit heavy at times during our discussion. But as you know, we try to keep it light even when we're talking about a spinal injury, as much as we can. But he's amazing, and he's gonna tell us his experience and give us his thoughts on this topic as it relates to what happened to him. And I think it's gonna be really useful for our listeners.
[00:10:45] Speaker A: Yeah, I think just a little background on Danny. Danny is married to our very dear friend Lynn. We kind of consider her to be the other edel daughter, our sister Julie's best friend growing up, and then also became one of my very close friends as we got older and I was no longer the baby sister.
Lynn have a daughter, Katie, who just graduated from college.
And Dani is a marvel to me when I look at how he navigates his way through the world. And by the way, I wanna say Lynn is a marvel as well, because it is certainly not without its challenges.
And I'll add that into Katie, also their daughter. But I have learned so many lessons about having a positive attitude and how you navigate your way through life.
Several years ago, Danny invited me to join him when then president was speaking at the University of Michigan graduation and Danny had VIP seats. He asked me if I would go with him. And it was a very rainy day. And I remember the challenges of getting Danny in his wheelchair from their home in Ann Arbor, but not right on campus into the campus through security.
We had to park somewhere and then get him on a bus and put the wheelchair in the front part of the bus and then get him off the bus and move him through security and all these different ways to get him through the stadium to get him into what was, you know, very lovely VIP section. But just the process from start to finish was exhausting. And I was only the person accompanying him. And when I think about the way that he navigates his way through the world and does so in a way that is positive and upbeat and also benefits others, I really. I think he's a marvel. And I felt really lucky that he agreed to chat with us and be on the show.
[00:12:39] Speaker C: All right, let's get into it. So in a second we will be talking with Danny, but in the meantime, here's mom with a little ditty.
[00:13:07] Speaker A: That's the kind of place you always want to be.
[00:13:11] Speaker C: We usually do a rolling start, just keep it casual and have some light banter and that's how we get things going. Karen does her magic with editing as necessary later on.
[00:13:21] Speaker A: Yeah, I love that Andrew considers my editing to be magic. I consider it to be lucky if I can get it done right. But yes, learning our way.
[00:13:30] Speaker B: Well, whatever happens, happens. That's. That's the, that's the name of the game for sure.
[00:13:37] Speaker A: Danny, where are we finding you today?
[00:13:39] Speaker B: You're finding me in Ann Arbor, Michigan today.
[00:13:42] Speaker A: So full disclosure, we've known you for what feels like a lifetime because it's been a long time that you and I have known each other. How long have you been married to Lynn?
[00:13:51] Speaker B: 25.
[00:13:52] Speaker A: Oh my.
So.
[00:13:53] Speaker B: But I've known Lynn for 26.
[00:13:56] Speaker A: Okay, so then. And I met you shortly after you met Lynn.
So we're talking a 26 year relationship here.
[00:14:04] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:04] Speaker A: We kind of shared in our pre that you come to us through our dear friend Lynn, who is like the other edel daughter in our family, my sister's lifelong closest friend and actually as we got older, one of my closest friends. And so you sort of married into our family. That's kind of how we look at it.
[00:14:22] Speaker B: Absolutely.
I feel like I'm almost like a Huntington Wood sir by proxy.
[00:14:30] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a. I would say that's a really good way to describe it for sure.
[00:14:35] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:14:36] Speaker A: So Danny, you're coming to us as kind of part of a conversation about long term care insurance. And your conversation will be different than the one that preceded you, but we thought, you know, that you would be a great person to talk to because you one, you're an attorney, you'll share all this with us, but also that you've just had a lot of background with navigating your way through this world. So I'm going to hand it over to Andrew and we'll take it from there.
[00:15:03] Speaker B: Wonderful.
[00:15:03] Speaker C: Hello, Danny. Great to have you today and you
[00:15:07] Speaker B: know, great to be here.
[00:15:09] Speaker C: You know what the great thing about you is that just from my, dare I say, limited experience, I mean I see on holidays, but I've lived overseas a lot of my life, so I don't see all the time. But what strikes me about you, if I may open with a compliment, is how.
[00:15:24] Speaker B: Oh, thank you.
[00:15:25] Speaker C: Is how wide open and animated you are about everything, including Yourself and your family and how you feel about things. And I know we go around the table and we have our annual seders and you've always got something interesting to say and today, you know, what we're going to be talking about is a pretty heavy topic. And I just want to say thank you very much for being willing to talk with us about it. Obviously it's something that is a big deal in anyone's life. When this happens completely changes the trajectory of your life. And we have been now having these discussions as it relates to seniors, but it's really relevant for anybody who encounters a life change that requires some serious disability care. And so we just wanted to thank you for being open with us about your history and what's happened. And maybe if you could just walk us through as much as you're willing to share, we would just like to today, like understand what happened to you and then start to get into how your life changed and how you were able to care for yourself without completely going broke for the rest of your life.
[00:16:26] Speaker B: Well, that's a very good point, Andrew. Insurance is a very, very difficult subject for a lot of people. When I think about it and I think how it's been affected me in my life. You know, everybody who I talk to says, you know, dealing with your insurance company is a full time job and it really is because as I think about it, nobody cares about your situation except you.
And when you're dealing with an insurance company, you know, you're advocating for yourself, for your family, for your needs, forgetting what you, you know, what you deserve from them. But you're going to go through, you know, the war, and I call it the war because, you know, their job is to say no. Very many, when they hear the word no, they just take it for what it's worth and they go on their way. And I don't know if it has to do with my New York background and growing up in New York City in the Bronx, but you know the word no when it's always been on my mind, even as a kid, it's like, how am I going to get to yes, either the way I manipulated my parents or in later years. Now you know, and I'll tell you the greatest book I read in law school, school, and I wish all your readers, everybody should read this book and all your listeners go get it. It's, it's only, it's a very thin paperback book, but it was one of the most important books I read in law school. The name of the book is Getting To. Yes, right. And it's, it's, it's a quick read, but it's so important on how to deal with this very difficult subject that we're going to talk about today. Insurance. So with that said, just my quick background, I'm a.
I became a paraplegic in a wheelchair back in 1985. 41 years ago, I was hurt in a car crash. Passenger in the backseat of a car up at summer camp in the Adirondacks. It was my first summer as a counselor at a camp that I went to for eight years. And a buddy of mine was speeding around a curb, no drugs or alcohol involved, and he lost control and there were four of us in the car and he was killed. I was paralyzed, and two other guys walked out without a scratch. This all happened two weeks before I was supposed to begin my freshman year at Syracuse University.
So, yeah, and here I am, I'm lying in the backseat of a car. I remember it like it was yesterday because, you know, you can't. I'm trying to get up. I can't get out.
Pain. It's like thousands of pins, you know, just needles, you know, affecting my body. The pain was off the charts. I've never felt such pain like this in my whole life. And you know, a few hours later, once they finally got me out of the car, as we were up in the map, my camp was up in the mountains in the Adirondacks.
[00:19:34] Speaker A: Hours. You were there a few hours.
[00:19:37] Speaker C: Jesus.
[00:19:38] Speaker B: Hours before a healthy. Came. I got out of. When I finally got out of the car and they put a board underneath me, a fireman had to cut me out of the car. It was. You know, these cars aren't around anymore. But back in 1985, just so you understand, the car I was in was a Datsun 280 ZX sports car. And.
And I'm a pretty big guy. I'm about 5, 10, so. And I was sprawled out in the back seat. I broke my back against. Up on the roof. I was spun around. And so to get cut out of the car was pretty.
It was pretty a daunting job for the volunteer firemen up there in Minerva, New York, and upstate New York. But hey, they got me out and. And I'm thankful to those guys to this day. Always love your first responders. Yeah, first responders in life are my best friends.
[00:20:29] Speaker A: True.
[00:20:30] Speaker B: And then I got to. And then I got to.
Had to go to the hot. I was in the hospital at Glens falls for.
For 10 days with. Basically, I was fighting for my life of pneumonia. And my parents at the time was really interesting. My parents were on a trip up in the Canadian Rockies and far, far up in like, I think they were banffed in British Columbia. And in those days to get back from the Canadian Rockies. And I'm in upstate New York in Glens Falls, New York. For them to come back, it was quite a.
It was quite a lot of logistics to get back. Incredible.
Yeah, it was, it was something else.
[00:21:10] Speaker C: And so you were in the hospital for 10 days just to get you out of the woods and kind of stable, it sounds like. And then from there, how long were you like in a hospital or then transferred to some rehab facility? What was the timing on all that?
[00:21:26] Speaker B: Well, what happened was then I was transferred to New York University Hospital.
Friends of mine at the time wanted to helicopter me out because I had a broken spine and helicopter me back to New York so I wouldn't have to take the be carted back to New York in an ambulance. But unfortunately the doctor up there wouldn't allow that to happen. And I was on a four and a half hour ambulance ride with bumps and everything.
It was pure torture, pure hell to get back to New York City. And I went, I went immediately. I was put in intensive care at NYU Hospital in New York City.
[00:22:06] Speaker C: And when you got there, had you already been informed that you would not walk again or was there still some hope that something could be repaired?
[00:22:15] Speaker B: I was basically told in Glens Falls by the doctor in Glens Falls that I'd never walk again. And it was a neurologist.
[00:22:23] Speaker A: Incredible.
[00:22:24] Speaker B: But the biggest mistake is I should have been brought to a trauma center, the trauma center. And you had a catastrophic injury that I had. I should have been brought, you know, another 20 minutes down the road to Albany where the trauma center was. But instead they left me at a little small wrinkly hospital, regional hospital in Glens Falls, which was not equipped to be able to deal with my injury. And I was almost died there. My mom's best friend's husband was a pulmonologist in Long Island. Had to come up and try to get the fluid out of my lungs from the, from my, the vertebrae rubbing against my lungs. And you know, I was fighting for my life because they were not equipped to be able to do the proper bronchoscopies and all the treatments that I needed to have that would have been done in a trauma center versus they didn't know what they were doing at this hospital. So it was very, very difficult.
[00:23:24] Speaker C: Then when you got to The New York Hospital. I cannot imagine what that drive was. I remember just obviously nothing compared to what happened to you. But when I broke my leg, I had a tib fib fracture, senior in college. And I remember in the couple weeks after. Just kicking it accidentally while you sleep would put me into extraordinary pain for, like, a couple hours. So I can't even imagine you being able to endure just the drive for hours, going down the road, that's just insane. And then.
[00:23:56] Speaker B: With a broken spine.
[00:23:57] Speaker C: With a broken spine. And so how long then were you at that hospital in New York once you got there?
[00:24:03] Speaker B: When I got to New York, I got there. I was there from. Basically, I was there from August 23rd until, with my operation, I had Harrington rods placed in my back so I could sit up again.
That was. That surgery was August 30, 1985. And again, I was told by the orthopedic surgeon that I wasn't going to be able to walk again. Then after that, I was in the hospital with rehab. Basically, I went to rehab September 1st. I was in rehab until December 17th.
[00:24:38] Speaker A: Gosh, all the entire time in the hospital, tired.
And then you have to go to a home that then needs to be your, I assume your family home that now needs to be equipped for you. I mean, all of the nuances to what happens, you know, things. Things don't end when the hospital stay ends. And now you're in a whole different realm of care.
[00:25:01] Speaker B: Yeah, my parents were almost here, right.
And that was bad. That was that easy for them to have to, you know, alter their house or modify their house. And my parents were old school in terms of, you know, they came out of the Holocaust and they weren't in concentration camps. But my dad came out of Germany. I worked the last boat in 1939, and my mom came out of France in 1941 to this country. So when they bought their house, their dream house in 1962, they didn't think that they would have a son in a wheelchair, so let alone having to do alterations to the house to make it somewhat accessible for me to live there. And they basically did the bare minimum. But I want to tell you, it was a blessing in disguise because I couldn't get out of there fast enough and go back to college and go to college.
[00:25:59] Speaker A: And that's the part that is pretty incredible among all of it. You do end up going to Syracuse later than you had originally expected. But you go to Syracuse, you graduate, you go to law school, and you move on to have a thriving, successful life.
[00:26:14] Speaker B: Well, you have to understand, I got lucky. And when it came to Syracuse, I was there about three weeks before my accident for summer registration with my parents. And I met some amazing people up there before my accident that little did I know would have such a huge effect on my life going forward. And it just brings tears to my eyes to think about. Like, for example, Syracuse was the first university in the country to have a parent's office. So when we were there for orientation, when my parents heard that there was parents office, he immediately went to that lecture. And they met the most wonderful woman who became. Happened to become my second mom. And she made it possible for me to go to Syracuse because this was before the Americans with Disabilities act and Syracuse was a private university. So it would have been very easy for them to say, you know what? Why don't you think about going somewhere else? And she said to my father, when I was in intensive care up in Glens Falls Hospital, whatever we need to do, we will do whatever it takes to make Danny comfortable so he could come to Syracuse. And, you know, when I heard my dad told me those words, I knew that I, you know, would have to do everything I could to follow my dream and to go. Go to Syracuse like I intended to do, you know, as I was supposed to do on my feet. But now I was gonna go in a wheelchair. And.
And if you think about Syracuse, it's not the most accessible campus. It's on a huge hill. There's your. There's snow, ice.
A lot of snow and ice, Bridget. Temperatures, lake effect, snow. They're known in the, in the country for getting the worst winters in the United States. And I went and I tell people to this day, I think it was my Destiny because the two middle numbers of my Social Security is 44, and 44 is the most famous number at Syracuse University, worn by the three greatest. Three great running backs. One was Jim Brown, the other one was Ernie Davis, who's the first African American to win the Heisman Trophy. And the other one was Floyd Little, who was also a great running back.
[00:28:29] Speaker C: So I always tell people that was permission from Danny to keep that in or out, depending on security reasons. And we'll review.
[00:28:35] Speaker B: Right, right.
[00:28:36] Speaker A: Here's the security.
[00:28:38] Speaker B: It's just the middle numbers, right?
[00:28:40] Speaker C: If they can guess the rest of them, then good for them.
[00:28:42] Speaker A: Yeah, good, exactly for them.
[00:28:44] Speaker B: It's also on my license plate, so I don't hide it.
[00:28:47] Speaker C: Okay. And so, so at this. So you're like 18 or so, right? When this happens, I mean, you're about to go to college and I assume at this point you're starting to switch gears from the horrific tragedy to like insurance questions, but like at this point juncture, you're under your parents insurance, like medical insurance, Is that how that works? Syracuse insurance, like what's the immediate like mechanics of paying for everything you needed? Right. Then at that point.
[00:29:11] Speaker B: Right. It was the insurance company of the driver who was killed in the accident.
[00:29:19] Speaker C: Liability insurance.
[00:29:20] Speaker B: Right.
[00:29:20] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:29:21] Speaker B: It was their auto insurance. And in those days New Jersey had pit, which was what we had, and we have in Michigan watered down PIT now, but personal injury protection and, and that insurance basically was paying for the hospital, everything that I was involved in.
[00:29:43] Speaker A: And what about like the retrofitting of home and such, did that come out of insurance as well? Because it's got to be.
[00:29:50] Speaker B: Absolutely, yes. So the work that my parents did, you know, the house was paid for by this insurance company, but yet we still had to sue them for what was going to be my plan for life regarding insurance to cover my medical needs, which is huge when you have a spinal cord injury and all type of cash settlement I would get because of the accident stuff.
[00:30:15] Speaker C: So how long did the money from that cover you? I mean, is that, was that good for the rest of your life or did at some point, did you have to figure out some other solution?
[00:30:24] Speaker B: Right. But it covered me. It was, I took less on the cash side. But if you invest well, we invested well. So it's, it's carried me all these years and over the years, plus I've been working, you know, in Syracuse for the last 10 years as their ADA consultant. And before that I had a motivational speaking company where I was on the road, you know, during the year a lot, traveling throughout the country, motivating, giving motivational speeches at different companies and speaking at different universities, conferences, trade shows, all sorts of different areas that hired me to tell my story in a way that they could, they could use my story to motivate their employees.
[00:31:12] Speaker A: I can't think of anybody who would be a better motivational speaker than you because, you know, like I said, we've known each other for a really long time and I find you to be. Sorry I'm teary. I hate when I get teary on the pod. But I find you to be inspirational in so many ways and always so upbeat and I find you to be someone who really is all about asking other people, how are you? What do you need?
This aura that surrounds you is just steeped in positivity and how incredible that you have taken what really would have been a defeating situation for most people and turned it into something inspiring for others. And also I do love the full circle that you are employed by Syracuse University, not only to work on their disabilities situation, but also, you know, you're kind of the ambassador there for kids who come to school and are new and are struggling. And I just think that is a really incredible way for you to live your life in addition to all the other ways that you live your life. A husband, a father, a friend, a means of support for everybody around you.
[00:32:17] Speaker B: An advocate. I was born to be an advocate.
And what you said earlier, asking people about themselves and really focusing on that, well, I have to thank my wife Lynn for that because, you know, coming from New York, I was pretty self absorbed. And she basically helped me. And I give her credit to this day, and I'm not joking around, you know, in our relationship, she really helped me to evolve and to be very forthright with people in terms of not only me talking about myself and telling people about me, but really focusing on listening to other people and to ask them about their lives and, you know, and emphasize, she says, so she used to say to me, so when they say something and you find it interesting or whatever, and even if you don't find it interesting, say, really, tell me more.
[00:33:10] Speaker A: And so her tagline is, wait, let me ask you this, right?
I'll say, hold on, we never talk about you. No, no, no, let me ask you this. So, Danny, one of the conversations we had in our previous interview with Ray, he talked about how we think of long term care. Insurance is something that you need for when you're old. You know, you might need an assisted living facility or you might need care in your home. But he was actually the one who brought up the idea of a catastrophic accident, that what do you do if you don't have that kind of insurance? And you and I had a brief conversation about how, you know, state laws are different and coverage can be different depending on where you are. There's a lot of battling to get what you need. You didn't have long, long term care insurance, your insurance. Fortunately, through your savviness, right? And knowing, you know, what you needed to do to get covered, that was a big factor for you.
[00:34:05] Speaker B: I was lucky. I was really lucky that my friend who died in the accident, very dear friend of mine, that his parents had great insurance, right?
And many people don't have that law. Like one of my best friends from high school who, when I got hurt was by my side and helping me and even had a fundraiser for me. My friend Alan Brown from New York had a fundraiser for me when. Not for me personally, but for spinal cord research because my parents started a research fund called the Daniel Human Fund for Spinal Cord Research because everybody asked us what we could do to help. So six weeks after his. After he had this fundraiser for me, January 2, 1988, he was in Martinique at Club Med. He was in the ocean and a riptide just came in and flipped him and he broke his. Broke his neck. And who you gonna sue when that happens?
And his insurance, you think about it, at the time, his policy was Blue Cross Blue Shield, you know, that was his medical insurance. So they were.
That insurance wasn't set up to help people with spinal cord injury.
[00:35:17] Speaker A: Right?
[00:35:18] Speaker B: So thank God, Alan tells everybody, you know, the greatest thing, you know, he gets stuff from Blue Cross. He fights with them constantly, but, you know, to get things that he needs. But he also. Luckily he was so entrenched in his community that his synagogue had a fund that people the congregates could donate to to help Allen with his needs, which has been to this day a huge help to them under these. Under the situation.
[00:35:45] Speaker C: That's incredible.
[00:35:46] Speaker B: You got to get the community involved too, sometimes.
[00:35:49] Speaker C: Have you ever done the estimate as to once you got relatively stable health wise, and you're into your life and you're able to work and you have this new trajectory of your life and how your days go and the cons. Contours of it. Have you ever thought, like, compared to someone who doesn't have a spinal injury, like, how much extra it costs just to manage your daily living compared to someone who doesn't have an injury like that.
[00:36:19] Speaker B: My God, it's like. Yeah, it's like. I mean, there's no comparison what goes into every day. Like, I think about, for example, the amount of medication that I take now compared to before I was hurt. I didn't take a pill for anything I took. If I had a headache, I'd take an aspirin or Tylenol or something. That was the extent of my medication as the minute I became spinal cord injured. I mean, I carry around this, like, gym bag with me that one of my friend, one of my best buddies from Syracuse has nicknamed the tackle box, you know, because of all the. All the stuff that, you know, I carry around. So I always. And then I say, to some extent, I'm a poster child for Walgreens, because when I go to Walgreens, they always remember my name because I'm a, I'm a frequent flyer, VIP customer there, I guess I'm a VIP customer over there. And as my dad would say, what price glory? But you know, that's that, that's it. And it's, it's very sad the amount of money that, you know.
Oh, it's sad, but I'm lucky of the amount of money that I've been able to garner from my insurance company because of what was negotiated in the settlement of my case where my lawyer, who was very smart at the time, who was a family friend, basically negotiated for me to have lower cash settlement but for lifetime hit. And that was the smartest thing he ever did.
[00:37:53] Speaker A: Yeah, game changer for you because no
[00:37:56] Speaker B: matter what, I will always be covered for the rest of my life regarding my medical condition of things that are associated with the accident. So the, the, what I have to live by is the notion of when I put a claim in for something, the standard in this is medically reasonable and necessary for that claim to be awarded by the insurance, you know, to be paid for by the insurance company. So I try to make sure that everything I do is medically reasonable and necessary. And you know, the name of the game is also having good doctors who know how to write good letters.
[00:38:33] Speaker C: And so how does that work then with separate medical insurance over time like for you and Lynn? I mean, how do you have to like do some mental, you know, some insurance gymnastics for separate insurance policies because you have this condition. And how does that all work, work?
[00:38:50] Speaker B: Well, things that are covered, like for example, if I go to a dermatology appointment that's not covered by man by my accident, by my auto insurance. So thank God Lynn from the University of Michigan has Blue Cross Blue Shield. I go on her Blue Cross Blue Shield plan and pay the deductible and get that taken care of for me or if I need to go to the audiologist, something like that, you know, lack of hearing or dealing with my hearing is, you know, that's up to me to pay for. That's not related to my accident or going to the eye doctor and dealing with my eyes and things like that. Those are normal things. But anything else related to my injury, bladder, bowel, you know, anything regarding my scoliosis, physical therapy, occupational therapy, my home health aid.
[00:39:45] Speaker A: When we chatted, you said that you had purchased a long term care insurance policy for Lynn.
[00:39:52] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:39:52] Speaker A: Can we talk about that?
[00:39:54] Speaker B: Yeah, sure.
We purchased a long term care policy for her. It's also, I call it a graded, it's an insurance Cocktail. It's amazing what created how you think insurance companies are so boring. A bunch of actuaries and. But I got to tell you these, the industry has really become creative in terms of what you can get in certain insurance policies. So she's got long term care in this policy. She's also got life insurance as part of the policy.
So, you know, it could be used in many different ways in terms of, you know, and then long term care to help her. She has to go to a. If she needs help at the house or she has to go to a facility. So it's really, you know, a great vehicle for her and for us.
[00:40:50] Speaker A: Because I would imagine even though you are younger than your wife, you have to assume that as you age, Lynn is going to need a level of care that you won't be able to provide.
So was that why you were so proactive with long term care?
[00:41:08] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely, because of my situation.
But even if I was up on my feet and being able bodied, you want to have professional people. I mean, I lived it with my mother. I had long term care with her. She had a long term care policy which paid basically 80% of all her expenses. It was a great policy she had. If I met life.
[00:41:31] Speaker A: Your mom had round the clock care
[00:41:33] Speaker B: at, for the last 24, at home, around the clock care.
[00:41:38] Speaker A: And so that ended up being covered by a long term hair insurance policy?
[00:41:41] Speaker B: For the most part, yeah, 80% of it, yeah. So my mom was only on the hook for 20% of her around the clock here.
[00:41:49] Speaker C: And so, and, and when did she get that? How many years was she paying into it and how much a month was that for the policy?
[00:41:57] Speaker B: She got it in her 60s.
[00:42:00] Speaker A: It seems like that's the golden time frame. That's the conversation in your 60s?
[00:42:04] Speaker B: Yeah, she got it in her 60s and I think we were paying about $1800 quarterly at the time.
[00:42:12] Speaker A: Not terrible.
[00:42:14] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it was $1,800 quarterly for her.
[00:42:18] Speaker C: It's like 600amonth, something like that.
[00:42:20] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:42:21] Speaker A: But in the end, the amount that you saved, I mean, I can't even imagine in New York, what, 24 hours.
[00:42:27] Speaker C: And how many years was she using, drawing from the policy once she started to need it?
[00:42:32] Speaker B: 11 years.
[00:42:33] Speaker C: Yeah, that was probably a good decision.
Did you ever do the math between all the, the monthly dues versus what you ended up paying and broke out even or made or anything?
[00:42:44] Speaker A: We did pretty well, I think.
[00:42:45] Speaker B: I think we did okay.
[00:42:47] Speaker A: You did.
[00:42:47] Speaker B: I'm not a math guy and I'm more of a take Care guy. I'm an advocate. Yeah, that's my thing.
[00:42:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:42:56] Speaker C: But it's interesting, it sounds like, I'm hope you don't mind me asking about the nuts and bolts because there are like you say there's a lot of different types of long term care insurance plans and it sounds like just from our cursory knowledge so far, paying something like 600amonth is like the gold standard type of plan. I mean, you can pay half that and people think that they still have a pretty good plan. But it might not be as great once you get down to needing 24, 7 care and seeing how much of that is covered. There seems to be a lot of different tiers, so to speak.
[00:43:25] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah, there are different tiers and, and it's with all insurances now, they're different tiers and it's up to people to really get a good insurance person who can explain it really well. Because I almost feel like you have to really understand insurance. I almost feel sometimes you need a graduate degree.
[00:43:47] Speaker A: It seems like. Yes. Yeah.
[00:43:49] Speaker B: To really understand what you're paying and what you're going to get out of it at the end and then how
[00:43:55] Speaker A: to have the right conversations about getting the coverage when it's time. Because I mean, you really have run the gamut of it in terms of battling it out. But yes, you're right. In the end, it's up to you to make sure that you're arriving at a yes when you get a no. And also getting the right people behind you to end up with a policy that you should be getting a yes for.
[00:44:17] Speaker B: Right? Yes.
And having somebody that you're getting insurance from, it's also going to be an advocate for you or help you, teach you how to advocate for yourself with the insurance company. You know, you just don't want somebody to write the insurer, get you the insurance, get their fee and go their merry way. You want them to be involved with you as you're going through this journey because things are going to change.
And you know, they're really good insurance people out there and they're really not good insurance people out there. And I would tell all your listeners, do your research, talk to different people, different insurance brokers and things like that who are repping different insurance companies. Because the fact is, if you go with an insurance broker in many respects, since they're repping different insurance companies, they have a really, I think it's really important because they could get you the best deal because of the different, you know, companies they're representing. So I think that's really important.
[00:45:24] Speaker C: Let me ask you an out of the box question here and I know
[00:45:26] Speaker A: you're not, is it about math? No, math.
[00:45:29] Speaker C: It's not about math, but it's about the, the insurance business. So maybe in the background it's about math, but like obviously most people is speaking of all people in the world or all people in America. Most people don't have 600 bucks a month to suspend on a long term care insurance, which is why a lot of people, even a few hundred bucks a month to them is, is a big deal. And so they do the analysis that it's probably not worth it. And it seems like there's this huge gap in there and you seem to have so much experience dealing with insurance and medical insurance from all these different angles, from your accident to your own long term care plans with your wife and your mom. Like what do you think is missing in the industry? Like how can that change where more people can have access to these plans? Is it just that they don't know that there is a solution and maybe not, not be that much but they should look into it? Or is there something that's preventing this because most people don't have it? And so like, why is that, what can change any, any ideas of how to fix the world here? Danny?
[00:46:29] Speaker B: Thank you, Andrew for that challenging question. I think it starts with, I think, you know, I think you need to be educated in the respect.
We're all going to get sick, we're all going to be disabled at some point. Disability is not just something that comes from catastrophic injuries. It comes from, from diseases. It comes from, you know, I'll give, I'll throw out a statistic to you. When it comes to paralysis, one out of 50 people in the United States is suffering from paralysis.
[00:47:01] Speaker A: I mean out of 55.
[00:47:03] Speaker B: Oh yeah. One out of 50 people have some sort of paralysis in the United States.
So people really need to figure out in their heads where, what they need to do to protect themselves and protect their families and really need to, you know, come up with a plan. And I understand we live in a very difficult time right now economically. A lot of people are suffering out there right now. You know, I speak to a lot of people. I know, you know, just, just trying to cover your bills on a regular basis. The last thing you're thinking about is oh my God, what's going to happen when I get sick. And I just, I'm just dealing with this right now with my brother who just suffered from pancreatitis and Dealing with him with his limited insurance and what he's going to have to do to deal with, you know, because he's just a guy who has a job and working and you know, lifts paychecks, paycheck trying to pay his bills and sometimes it's a struggle. And now he got sick with pancreatitis and now he's got to figure out when all these medical bills come rushing in the door and how do I deal with this? So I have to come up with a payment plan with the hospital insurance doesn't cover xyz. Many people in this country go bankrupt so that they don't have to pay and start hence the bankruptcies of vehicle don't have to pay their hospital bills and have to start all over again and build their life of credit all over again. Which is horrible. Takes sometimes it takes people 10 to 15 years to recover from a bankruptcy.
And it's. I think our legislators need to do more for our society really doing something to help people to get, get long term care insurance. And it's also the insurance companies, a lot of insurance companies don't write long term care policies anymore. There's a lot of them got burned in the vehicle of you know, they weren't pricing them appropriately. Like my mom's policy. MetLife, it was a MetLife policy. MetLife doesn't write that, hasn't written that policy in the last 15 years. I mean my mom got it when it was almost going to be not available and so she got lucky. But it's really, it's a re. Our medical care system, our system of care in this country is so bad. And I'm not saying, believe me, I've been in Canada, Canada's no better. I've been in the emergency room in Canada. It takes nine hours. It took me nine hours to be seen in the emergency room in Canada.
So don't think that some of these countries are better. I was in the emergency room on my recent trip to Italy. You know, I cut my hand. It took me, you know, six hours until they finally bandaged, you know, put stitches in my hand to get in there. So all these wonderful countries that tell you they have great, you know, medicine, socialized medicine night. I don't know what to do to repair the system. But you know, if I did that I would be Nostradamus and I would be a billionaire if I could fix our medical system in this country. But people need to be aware and figure out what's best for their family and do what they think they can do best for what they can do for their family. But it's, it's. It's not an easy situation that we're in that we're involved in. So I have to say that I, I'm very lucky.
[00:50:43] Speaker A: You're lucky, but you're also. Your luck is the byproduct of design. You worked hard to make things happen for yourself. You fortunately were surrounded by people who were able to give you good advice and help you.
And you've created your own curation of a really beautiful life despite a tragic circumstance. And we feel honored and lucky to know you and have you in our life and consider you family. Family. We're grateful for your time today.
[00:51:12] Speaker B: The feeling's mutual, Karen and Andrew. And I think what you're doing on your platform and really trying to educate people and I mean, what you're going through with your mom and everything and that you've come out and are doing this, it's just fantastic. And that I could be part of it has just been an honor and a pleasure for me as well. So thank you.
[00:51:33] Speaker C: Thank you, Danny. It was an absolute pleasure having you on. I appreciate it all your insights and sharing your. Your experience. And I know our listeners are going to get a lot out of it.
[00:51:43] Speaker B: I'm glad I could be part of it. Thank you.
[00:51:45] Speaker C: All right, buddy, have a great rest of your day.
[00:51:48] Speaker B: You too.
[00:51:48] Speaker C: Talk to you later. And in the meantime, here's mom to play us out.
[00:51:59] Speaker A: Do a dear female deer lack a lot to fee it all when you are around this place.
You're gonna have a wonderful day.
[00:52:24] Speaker C: And we are back. Karen, takeaways.
[00:52:28] Speaker A: Well, first of all, you know, I've known Danny for so long, but I don't know if I've ever really listened to him. Kind of walk us through just the process of what happened to him, which is really profound. A little side note that that accident happened to him on August 13, and that happens to be the birthday of Lynn, his wife, who he met many, many years later. But I do always think there's like a little serendipitous piece to the idea that he had the most catastrophic thing happen to him on that day.
And now that day also celebrates the best person in his life. I think that's kind of a really nice turn.
[00:53:09] Speaker C: Well, the other weird thing about that is that August 13th is four days before my half birthday.
[00:53:16] Speaker A: Isn't that crazy?
[00:53:17] Speaker C: Also?
That's kind of crazy.
[00:53:19] Speaker A: That's crazy, Andrew.
[00:53:21] Speaker C: It's wild. I never even made that connection.
[00:53:23] Speaker A: I mean, look at you. Wow, a little numerology there for you. Okay, so takeaways are that Danny was fortunate and he admits it. You know, that's a true point, that he was being guided by people who knew the way around the law at the time, the way that insurance laws were set up in New Jersey, which is where the driver of that car lived. He didn't have to battle the insurance company to get the coverage.
[00:53:52] Speaker C: Well, it sounds like there was quite a battle. He had a great warrior lawyer on his side to make sure it was sufficient for sure.
[00:54:00] Speaker A: I certainly didn't mean to say that it was easy. The fact that he had people in his corner taking care of him from the beginning is an important piece. The battles he's struggled with have been since then. You go to use the insurance and now you're arguing every last tooth and nail with the insurance company to get them to cover the things that you need. And that's exhausting and upsetting, but also eventually, hopefully you prevail. I mean, I'm sure this is how attorneys make a living. I know plenty of attorneys who do this for a living who say, yeah, I spend a lot of time suing insurance companies because they're not following policies or trying to find loopholes in policies. And so I do sort of feel like it sounds to me. And again, I do not want to bash the insurance companies. I understand it's a meaningful industry in so many ways, but it does feel like you really have to have the patience, the perseverance and probably the assistance you need in order to get the kind of coverage you need in any circumstance.
[00:55:00] Speaker C: Well, yeah, and he's got different battles to fight. He's got classification battles where he has to really identify which medical procedure or situation is relating to and going back to as a result of the accident they had all those years ago. And everything that's not is under sepid insurance that Lynn has. So it's. Yeah, it's a mess, but thank God he's got that at least a little bit of a net and he's had that.
Honestly, when we were talking to him, I was thinking about the person who just kind of like gets really ill or has cancer or it's not a traffic accident, there's nobody liable. It's just something that happens to them and I can't imagine what their situation is if they don't have some type of insurance.
And you could also hear from Danny, another takeaway is that he was very smart and his family was very smart to get excellent long term care insurance for his mom and for them now.
But it's not cheap. And I was like, these are gold standard plans that, that just most people can't afford. So a lot of us are just rolling the dice out there and it's really got to change, which is why I asked him that question, which of course is impossible to answer. But how do we bridge this gap and affect some change in the industry so that more people can have access to that net that they need just in case something happens and everybody's in a different situation? I can't believe how incredible his attitude is considering what he's had to go through. I mean, these hours I can't stop thinking of from the time the accident happened to when EMS got to him, and then more hours on that drive to New York through the Adirondack Mountains.
Beyond imagination. What that experience is like and that he's able to talk about it and share his experience with us is just. It's incredible.
[00:57:11] Speaker A: Yeah, he's a force to be reckoned with. You know, we did ask this in our last episode with Ray and also put in our social media feeds.
I really would love to hear from our listeners. Do you have long term care insurance or any kind of care insurance related to exactly what we've been talking about? I guess that is all called long term care, but have you used it? Has it worked for you? Have you decided not to get long term care insurance? And if that's the case, why aren't you getting long term care insurance? What's keeping you? Is it just the premiums? Is it that you think it's not gonna be worth it? Do you have enough of a nest egg saved? And by the way, how do you know that's enough of a nest egg saved? We don't know what's gonna happen to us or how many years we're gonna live under certain circumstances. I really would love to put this query out to our listeners and see if anybody would be interested in chatting with us about your own experiences or your own choices that you've made. Cause I think that could benefit one another. And that is the whole reason we do this pod, is to create this community of people who can learn from one another and learn from the experts who come on and share their own experiences with us.
[00:58:17] Speaker C: All right, well, that's it for today.
[00:58:19] Speaker A: All right, you can email
[email protected] you could drop a note in our social media feeds. You can find our podcast posted in. If it's not one thing, it's Joanna.
Either on Instagram or on Facebook, and we look forward to hearing from you.
I feel pretty.
Oh, so pretty.
Oh, so pretty and lovely and nice.
And you're gonna have a lot of these beautiful things, because it's always just to be in your heart.
